Author Topic: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery  (Read 18491 times)

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Offline RickyJim

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2013, 12:39:32 PM »
The overwhelming reason for not having an separate immunity hearing is that there is AFAIK no precedent for a successful one in which the defendant doesn't testify.  Of course a lawyer can come up with another reason to give the public.  Even the prospect of having the judge ask Zimmerman some yes or no questions rattled O'Mara.

Offline cboldt

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2013, 12:52:15 PM »
The overwhelming reason for not having an separate immunity hearing is that there is AFAIK no precedent for a successful one in which the defendant doesn't testify.  Of course a lawyer can come up with another reason to give the public.  Even the prospect of having the judge ask Zimmerman some yes or no questions rattled O'Mara.

I don't know about successful or not, would have to reread the handful of 776.032 cases I found a year ago.  I am of the belief that Zimmerman could provide his version in sworn affidavit form.  The downside risk is one of credibility, where taking live Q&A has a potential credibility upside to the judge/jury/decider; and unwillingness to face the decider might bias the decider against your sworn testimony.  Technically, unwillingness to testify at all is not to be taken as an adverse sign, and likewise, failure to take the stand in lieu of swearing a statement is not to be taken as an adverse sign.  As a practical matter, the balance depends on how closely defendant's sworn statement hews to the independent evidence and anything the state may dig up as contradictory.

Anyway, I did find 776.032 motions that included sworn statements of fact from defendant.  Sworn motions is an unusual device, and the defendant-supplied material in the motions was "just the facts."

O'Mara doesn't trust Nelson, and he shouldn't.  I think part of his reaction to putting his client on the stand was knee jerk, and I agree, he was surprised and rattled.

Separately, ff Nelson's point was that giving up the right to pretrial immunity on her deadline results in a forfeiture of immunity hearing, period (as far as she is going to rule), then she did a piss poor job of informing Zimmerman of the ramifications of his decision.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2013, 01:08:38 PM »
I am of the belief that Zimmerman could provide his version in sworn affidavit form. 

Under what rule of evidence?

Quote
I did find 776.032 motions that included sworn statements of fact from defendant.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this.

I would think an attorney can included whatever he wants in a motion. That doesn't mean the judge has to admit it into evidence.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2013, 01:11:29 PM »
Separately, if Nelson's point was that giving up the right to pretrial immunity on her deadline results in a forfeiture of immunity hearing, period (as far as she is going to rule), then she did a piss poor job of informing Zimmerman of the ramifications of his decision.

Specifically what did Nelson say, for you to think that was her point?

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2013, 02:32:47 PM »
he said he may raise immunity after the evidence is in. Motions for judgment of acquittal are made before the jury is charged. Orlando Sentinel reports:

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The defense "might," he said, argue for immunity at trial, after all the evidence is presented.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2013, 02:55:14 PM »
For me some of the good things that happened with the handling of W8 are now on the record.  I found it interesting that BDLR didn't argue those points as false but questioned the events as far as timing involved.

Does that mean the State accepts everything Don West said about her but disputed the timing?

Offline cboldt

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2013, 03:09:46 PM »
he said he may raise immunity after the evidence is in. Motions for judgment of acquittal are made before the jury is charged. Orlando Sentinel reports:

He said something different in his presser after the hearing.  He left no room for giving the decision to the judge, he said that it was Zimmerman's decision that the decision be made by a jury.

So, having said both, we are left to wait and see which it is; because it can't be both.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2013, 03:26:26 PM »
Did we learn anything new as far as evidence in the M-Z case today? 

1. DeeDee now claims that the reason she didn't go to the wake and/or funeral was that she didn't want to view the body.  So she made up a lie about having to go the hospital instead.  I admit that I don't understand why the lie was better than the truth in her point of view.

2.  A ping of some cell tower, Northwest of RATL indicated that Traybon strayed in that direction from the direct path back from the 711.

Now that is pretty slim pickins.   >:(  Did I miss something?

Offline cboldt

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2013, 03:41:29 PM »
Did we learn anything new as far as evidence in the M-Z case today? 

1. DeeDee now claims that the reason she didn't go to the wake and/or funeral was that she didn't want to view the body.  So she made up a lie about having to go the hospital instead.  I admit that I don't understand why the lie was better than the truth in her point of view.

2.  A ping of some cell tower, Northwest of RATL indicated that Traybon strayed in that direction from the direct path back from the 711.

Now that is pretty slim pickins.   >:(  Did I miss something?

Witness 8 had help composing the "letter" to Sybrina.  Witness 8 does not know this friend's name, other than first name.

Offline IrishGerard

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2013, 04:44:29 PM »
They're waiving the Immunity hearing because the defendant has no confidence that Judge Nelson, or any other judge for that matter, has the intestinal fortitude to be the sole decider. It's a travesty of justice, of course, that zimmerman cant avail himself of a law that was specifically designed for someone in his situation just because of the threat of violence. zimmerman has clearly acted in self-defense and the Prosecutor in the presiding jurisdiction also believed so. DDs testimony changes nothing. zimmerman's injuries alone - juxtaposed with trayvon's - suffice as a 'preponderance of evidence'. If zimmerman cant prevail at a pretrial immunity hearing then who can? the minor inconsistencies is zimmerman's accounts are immaterial. he gave the cops a reenactment at the scene; what guilty person would do that? and why therefor would he be afraid to take the stand?

 I personally think they should have gone with the scheduled immunity hearing and put it on the Judge.
who cares if his detractors think he got off on some technicality (SYG) who cares what 'the country' thinks - zimmerman is going to have to leave the USA even if he is acquitted at trial.

Also, I am amazed that legal analysts (HLN) are still conflating SYG with the immunity hearing - Serenity Now!

Offline unitron

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2013, 04:56:12 PM »
I TiVo'ed HLN, and the part that wasn't commercials was mostly talking heads (and I probably don't have to tell you where I think a lot of them had those heads), instead of actually letting me see and hear the hearing itself.

Anybody know anywhere online I can catch a "re-run" of a live stream of just the hearing pool feed?

Offline cboldt

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #71 on: April 30, 2013, 05:00:06 PM »
I TiVo'ed HLN, and the part that wasn't commercials was mostly talking heads (and I probably don't have to tell you where I think a lot of them had those heads), instead of actually letting me see and hear the hearing itself.

Anybody know anywhere online I can catch a "re-run" of a live stream of just the hearing pool feed?

Youtube!  Start here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udFiabueFmo

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #72 on: April 30, 2013, 05:13:51 PM »
Witness 8 had help composing the "letter" to Sybrina.  Witness 8 does not know this friend's name, other than first name.
The prosecution's main task is to pick jurors that:

1. Can believe that DeeDee is accurately conveying what Martin said to her over the phone.
2. Can believe that what Martin said over the phone implies beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman chased him down and finally caught him.

Even the world's best jury consultant may not be equal to the task.



Offline cboldt

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #73 on: April 30, 2013, 05:21:52 PM »
The prosecution's main task is to pick jurors that:

1. Can believe that DeeDee is accurately conveying what Martin said to her over the phone.
2. Can believe that what Martin said over the phone implies beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman chased him down and finally caught him.

The prosecution's task, in this case, is to choose biased and emotional jurors.  This case won't be decided on the merits.

Offline unitron

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Re: Apr. 30 Hearing on Sanctions, Immunity, HOA Settlement and Discovery
« Reply #74 on: April 30, 2013, 05:35:26 PM »
Youtube!  Start here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udFiabueFmo

Well, at least he talks over the hearing a bit less than HLN.  :)

 

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