Author Topic: Voice ID experts  (Read 24988 times)

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Offline jjr495

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2013, 11:53:00 PM »
They could call Reich alone.
A quick look through Google Scholar reveals that Reich has done some decent science in his past, but his analysis, thus far, is seriously flawed. In analyzing the word "stop" he reports that the first formant frequency is 10% higher than an adult. A quick read of several articles on formant frequencies versus age reveals that the mean of the first formant frequency of most vowels declines sharply until age 16. After that it levels off but declines slowly in older age. The variability within age groups swamps any difference between 17 and 28 year olds. Of course, this is why he needed to try use the exemplars, but didn't. This does not even address the  issue that the extreme emotional state and loudness introduces big changes to the spectral signatures of speech.
I would like to see the graphs he included with his report.
H&H seem to have done the best they could, but they should have never tried to produce numerical confidence levels. It would have been very difficult (impossible?) for them to have determined a sampling distribution for their methodology.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 12:00:14 AM by jjr495 »

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2013, 10:02:34 AM »
The most remarkable thing about the reports is that the results do not satisfy the standards for admissible acoustic evidence matching, as used in prior cases, but the prosecutor claims that a Frye hearing to determine their admissibility is not necessary.  Is that hubris, ignorance or desperation on the part of the prosecutor?

Offline unitron

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2013, 10:15:18 AM »
... Is that hubris, ignorance or desperation on the part of the prosecutor?

Any reason he can't go for the trifecta?

Offline Evil Chinchilla

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2013, 12:36:17 PM »
Since GZ has stated that he was yelling for help while being attacked, couldn't MoM challenge Reich's alleged "These shall be" by suggesting that it was actually GZ calling to the surrounding townhouses "Please help me!"?

GZ has enough of a "Virginia accent" at times that "help" might come out more like "halp"-- same middle sound as "shall"-- when said under stress.

And am I the only one who'd pay a dollar to read what Reich would make out of the original Crump/DeeDee recordings? 

Offline turbo6

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2013, 03:09:36 PM »
couldn't MoM challenge Reich's alleged "These shall be" by suggesting that it was actually GZ calling to the surrounding townhouses "Please help me!"?

Its kind of mind boggling that an audio expert is alleging that to be an utterance during a fist fight. Unless there was some impromptu sermon going on during the scuffle that we aren't aware of.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2013, 01:30:31 AM »
Its kind of mind boggling that an audio expert is alleging that to be an utterance during a fist fight. Unless there was some impromptu sermon going on during the scuffle that we aren't aware of.

On my post linked below I have a video singling out the "These shall be" part. Given that there was a TV on at some point, though the witness claims it was turned off before the call, and to the fact that another male was in the house, and given many other factors I seriously, and in my "expert" opinion, doubt that is George making that sound.

http://diwataman.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/states-16th-supplemental-discovery-you-got-to-be-kidding-me/

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2013, 10:16:22 AM »
there was a TV on at some point, though the witness claims it was turned off before the call,

W-11 said she muted the TV.

Written statement, 2/26, 87/184

SPD, 3/2, 0:32-48

FDLE, 3/19, 1:36-59

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2013, 11:23:01 AM »
W-11 said she muted the TV.

Written statement, 2/26, 87/184

SPD, 3/2, 0:32-48

FDLE, 3/19, 1:36-59

Is there some significance to the difference between off/muted that I'm missing? Regardless, witness are often wrong about things as we all well know, maybe the mute button got hit accidentally real quick as they moved around, maybe it was her boyfriend, maybe it was something on the dispatchers end, maybe it was Jesus.

Continuing with some more thoughts on the matter though I find that particular science being applied in this case should be the last resort in determining various things. What should be done is a recreation from the actual location using the same phone and other factors where tests could be run to see what could actually be heard at different variables from varying distances and such things. That's how to truly be scientific about it. And what they should do is make Reich go outside of W11's home and see if he can recreate this supposed George utterance of "These shall be" and other such nonsense so he feels really stupid and retires in embarrassment.

Offline leftwig

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2013, 11:35:16 AM »
W-11 said she muted the TV.

Written statement, 2/26, 87/184

SPD, 3/2, 0:32-48

FDLE, 3/19, 1:36-59

Do we know whether those statements mean there was no sound coming from the TV (mute button used), or that they simply turned the volume down?  I think someone could reasonably say muted when either lowering the volume or silencing it completely.  I often ask my wife to mute the TV when I think I hear the kids upstairs and she always turns the volume down to a low level.  The volume button is used much more often than the mute button and likely easier to think of on quick notice.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2013, 11:48:27 AM »
Quote
Unicron: [after giving Megatron a new body] Behold, Galvatron! And these shall be your minions.

[giving Thundercracker, Shrapnel, and Kickback new bodies]

Unicron: Scourge, the tracker. And his huntsmen, the Sweeps.

[giving Skywarp and Bombshell new bodies]

Unicron: Cyclonus, the warrior. And his armada.


So all we need to do is find out if Transformers was on TV the night of 2/26/12.   :D

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2013, 12:05:48 PM »
The volume button is used much more often than the mute button and likely easier to think of on quick notice.

I always use the mute button when I want to listen to something else. It's quicker.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2013, 12:15:17 PM »
Regardless, witness are often wrong about things

I think it's strange that your post indicates that you don't think much of Reich's report, but you seem to feel a need to go to desperate lengths to explain it away.

I think the most likely explanation is that Reich's 'This shall be' is really an instance of 'Please help me'. But I don't really feel a need for an explanation. FBI experts and two other prosecution experts have analyzed the recording, and no one corroborates Reich.

Offline AJ

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2013, 12:47:00 PM »
http://s23.postimg.org/w18ll6l23/separated.png

http://www25.zippyshare.com/v/89717981/file.html
http://s11.postimg.org/joppuc6xu/scream.jpg

http://www25.zippyshare.com/v/23682446/file.html
http://s10.postimg.org/4gum5yqjr/Utterance.png

I have taken the first utterance ("These shall be" - I don't hear that at all) and tried to set proper high/low pass filters to get just the scream (blue in the first image) or just the utterance (black in the first image). They are in flac format (lossless) so ensure you have a proper player if you wish to hear them. Note: I'm not saying they're perfectly separated - I don't believe that's possible.. but I'd say it's pretty darn close.

Here's my question. Given that witnesses put the two individuals together, or at least in the same vacinity, why is it that the person who is seemingly talking in a calm candence-like voice (reminds me of a commercial) louder than the person screaming at the top of their lungs? On the scream I'm getting about -9DB and on the utterance I'm getting -7 to -6 DB. It doesn't make sense, to me, that one person is speaking louder than the person screaming if they're both at the same location. The person speaking -must- be closer to the microphone on the phone to explain this, in my opinion. Anyone have a different plausible explanation?

Offline leftwig

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2013, 12:50:24 PM »
I always use the mute button when I want to listen to something else. It's quicker.

I didn't presume your or anyone else would only use the volume button to mute a TV.   I was merely suggesting that I think many people would and that muting the TV could mean silencing it or lowering the volume level.  They were lowering it to hear activity/screaming that was occurring right outside their open door, so I wouldnt' think they would have had to silence the TV completely to hear what was going on.

In regards to Reich, has he made any mention of picking up what W6 said to the combatants?  Another witness (W19 I believe) who was across the way and several houses down (further away from W6 than W11 and W20) said she heard W6 say he was going to call 911. 

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Voice ID experts
« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2013, 01:05:31 PM »
I think it's strange that your post indicates that you don't think much of Reich's report, but you seem to feel a need to go to desperate lengths to explain it away.

I think the most likely explanation is that Reich's 'This shall be' is really an instance of 'Please help me'. But I don't really feel a need for an explanation. FBI experts and two other prosecution experts have analyzed the recording, and no one corroborates Reich.

Odd, why am I the issue suddenly? If you have no need for what I have to say on the matter then ignore it.

 

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