Author Topic: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013  (Read 11431 times)

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Offline RickyJim

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2013, 06:49:23 AM »
I can't imagine why the Defense would do that when it would be easy enough to argue there was no attempt of deception by George.
Well, we are far apart on this one.  The two things where the defense will have a hard time are Zimmerman's reasons for getting out of his car (really hard) and having his head repeatedly banged against the concrete.  It may be easier to explain away his inability to account for how he and Martin got from the top of the T to John's lawn.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2013, 06:49:59 AM »
I can't imagine why the Defense would do that when it would be easy enough to argue there was no attempt of deception by George.

They can argue it, but that doesn't mean all the jurors will buy it.

Offline Kyreth

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2013, 06:51:19 AM »
Well we are far apart on this one.  The two things where the defense will have a hard time are Zimmerman's reasons for getting out of his car (really hard) and having his head repeatedly banged against the concrete.  It may be easier to explain away his inability to account for how he got from the top of the T to John's lawn.

Neither of those are hard.

Offline Kyreth

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2013, 07:02:02 AM »
We have spent a year arguing about that and am not going to repeat all of that here.  Do you think that there is so little chance that jurors will buy that he tried to deceive about certain things that such a question shouldn't be used?

And in that year no one has yet to give a convincing argument that he attempted to deceive.

So I think it would be poor strategy to start the trial with a first impression of calling George a liar.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2013, 07:15:40 AM »
And in that year no one has yet to give a convincing argument that he attempted to deceive.

Your opinion.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2013, 07:16:58 AM »
Still no mention of 'dress code' motion.

The prosecution may have decided not to oppose, but if so I've missed that being mentioned in court.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2013, 07:17:24 AM »
Your opinion.

There's a difference between getting a detail or two wrong on the 75th re-telling and trying to deceive.


Offline Kyreth

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2013, 07:21:48 AM »
There's a difference between getting a detail or two wrong on the 75th re-telling and trying to deceive.

Exactly. And the key details that were off (such as following Trayvon for a few seconds after getting out of car) George corrected immediately as soon as his memory was jogged at the scene.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2013, 07:43:58 AM »
Probably lots of cases have been lost because lawyers for one side didn't plan for the contingency that jurors might have a certain way to weight the evidence, different from the one they espouse. 

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2013, 07:48:55 AM »
I can't imagine why the Defense would do that when it would be easy enough to argue there was no attempt of deception by George.

I deleted Ricky's question by accident when I was responding to it by saying "That would be a totally objectionable question." I hit the modify button instead of the quote button, sorry. There is no evidence GZ lied about anything. Variations are not differences, and even differences may or may not be lies.  A question might be posed such as "If you believed a witness has lied....' but you can't presuppose the defendant will tell a lie.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2013, 07:49:50 AM »
Zimmerman's partisans would do well to remember that voir dire should keep people who think the way they do off the jury.

I'm biased toward Zimmerman myself, so I'm skeptical that the jury will be easier on him than I am.

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2013, 07:50:47 AM »
Ricky, stop with the accusations against George. This thread is for your thoughts on today's jury selection. Your assumption he lied is simply your opinion, you've stated it many times, and there is no evidence to support that. Take that argument back to the pre-trial forums.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2013, 07:55:46 AM »
There is no evidence GZ lied about anything.

I disagree that there is no evidence at all that Zimmerman lied.

I would agree that there is not proof beyond reasonable doubt that any particular statement was a lie. But is that necessary, before a jury can conclude that he probably lied about some things, and consider that evidence of consciousness of guilt, as part of the mosaic of a circumstantial evidence case?

Offline Kyreth

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2013, 07:56:23 AM »
Zimmerman's partisans would do well to remember that voir dire should keep people who think the way they do off the jury.

I think we are all well aware of that.
Quote
I'm biased toward Zimmerman myself, so I'm skeptical that the jury will be easier on him than I am.

Good thing George doesn't need a jury that will go easy on him.  Just one that fairly considers evidence.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Day One Thoughts: June 10, 2013
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2013, 07:59:20 AM »
My question, Jeralyn, didn't make an accusation against Zimmerman.  It was a hypothetical trying to weed out jurors who would weight too heavily their inference from the evidence that he did lie about some things.  Should I infer that you wouldn't make such an attempt if you were a defense lawyer on this case?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 08:00:58 AM by RickyJim »

 

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