Author Topic: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013  (Read 6510 times)

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Offline jjr495

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2013, 06:03:16 PM »
I'm sure there is a difference.  The people that appear for questioning are a selected subset of the general population.  I think the MVD demographics differ from the general population, but for talking purposes I'm comfortable assuming they are exactly the same, except for the size of the population.  Drivers being a subset of "everybody in the county."

I'm not surprised at all that the demographic breakdown of the group that appears for questioning is different from the demographic breakdown of the general population.
Similar factors may be at play to explain why the demographics of prison population do not match the demographics of the general population.  There is a sort of "self selecting" going on.  In this jury selection process, only those that claim relative freedom from bias and low exposure to Zimmerman/Martin news are questioned.
Remember that we are not seeing a racial difference in the data. Although the sample size is small, and maybe I am the only one that thought B29 was Hispanic. We are probably seeing a gender difference though. I doubt mvd registration would differ much by gender, but maybe.
I got the impression that the state and the defense (sort of) agreed on the jurors to interview first. Maybe BDLR wants females and Hirschhorn doesn't mind if they are the "right" females.
If anybody knows differently about the order of the jurors that we are seeing, I would sure like your insight. With all of the very long sidebars, I am not at all clear on the process.

Offline cboldt

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2013, 06:14:18 PM »
I got the impression that the state and the defense (sort of) agreed on the jurors to interview first. Maybe BDLR wants females and Hirschhorn doesn't mind if they are the "right" females.
If anybody knows differently about the order of the jurors that we are seeing, I would sure like your insight. With all of the very long sidebars, I am not at all clear on the process.

First, by "jurors that appear for questioning," I mean the ones that are called into the courtroom and are interviewed, not the group that is summonsed to the courthouse.  The ones called into the courtroom for questioning are a carefully selected subset of those summonsed.  Another judge tossed jurors for age, statutory hardship.  Questionnaires were used to select those who answered "not biased/no opinion" and "not much contact with media on this subject."

Out of THAT group, I think the order for questioning was randomized.

I'm not clear on the function of the sidebars.  The press is saying that the sidebars are discussions about dismissing the person who was just interviewed.

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2013, 06:37:20 PM »
Yes, that's right. The sidebars are where they challenge the juror for cause . If there's disagreement between the parties, the judge makes the call. (The judge can also disagree with the parties and override their agreement.)

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2013, 07:31:21 PM »
From what I heard this morning and from NMNM's notes, it seems most of the questions today (and I think Monday) were about where and when the jurors heard things about the case and their emotional reactions to certain aspects.  Of course all the potential jurors pleaded that they didn't know too much, were completely open minded, etc.  So what was the point?  What did the defense and prosecution try to coax out of their mouths (BDLR was at his most unctuous) in order to find out which jurors they had to get rid of?

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2013, 07:56:04 PM »
Don't forget, Ricky--they can see the potential jurors as well, so it's not just what they might say but body language and other non-verbal cues. Things like that are part of the tapestry the jury consultants study.


Offline jjr495

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2013, 08:12:02 PM »
Yes, that's right. The sidebars are where they challenge the juror for cause . If there's disagreement between the parties, the judge makes the call. (The judge can also disagree with the parties and override their agreement.)
Thanks for all the info on the process. It is too bad, I was really hoping to hear what qualified for cause in specific cases.

If cboldt is correct about the random order, then it must be the hardship and prior opinion questions that are creating the gender selection. I didn't think there was a gender gap in media consumption, especially local crime. Here is an interesting Pew Research poll on gender media consumption (the second graph). It shows local and morning news as being consumed by women a bit more than men.

Offline cboldt

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2013, 08:52:18 PM »
Thanks for all the info on the process. It is too bad, I was really hoping to hear what qualified for cause in specific cases.

If cboldt is correct about the random order, then it must be the hardship and prior opinion questions that are creating the gender selection. I didn't think there was a gender gap in media consumption, especially local crime. Here is an interesting Pew Research poll on gender media consumption (the second graph). It shows local and morning news as being consumed by women a bit more than men.

You remarks triggered a thought that might explain what looks like a prevalence in favor of "not from here" candidates.  People who recently moved to the area are less likely to have heard details about the case, so would over-represented on the basis of having heard less.  Plus, moving is a bit of a chore, and tends to preoccupy people for a few months.

A flippant remark on my part - women may be generally slower to reach a firm opinion in general, or slower to admit it in writing.  Indecisive, talk it to death, etc.  I know that's a stereotype, but I reflect on the juror who had a hard time saying whether being assigned to the case for two months would be a personal hardship.  Yes it would, but I'd like to be on the case, blah blah blah.

You may get to see argument on for-cause rejection, once the questioning gets beyond pretrial publicity and hardship.  If you are patient and willing to pay the freight, I think the court reporter is taking down what is said at the bench.

Interesting poll.  I only looked at the one page you linked and the graphs on there, but got to thinking what the data would look like with audience size factored in.

Offline jjr495

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2013, 09:54:16 PM »
You remarks triggered a thought that might explain what looks like a prevalence in favor of "not from here" candidates.  People who recently moved to the area are less likely to have heard details about the case, so would over-represented on the basis of having heard less.  Plus, moving is a bit of a chore, and tends to preoccupy people for a few months.
That is intersting. I hadn't thought of that.
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A flippant remark on my part - women may be generally slower to reach a firm opinion in general, or slower to admit it in writing.  Indecisive, talk it to death, etc.  I know that's a stereotype, but I reflect on the juror who had a hard time saying whether being assigned to the case for two months would be a personal hardship.  Yes it would, but I'd like to be on the case, blah blah blah.
My family is quite different. The males tend to pick apart an issue for quite  some time before forming an opinion.
The juror you are talking about is B29. I think she had shift work at a nursing home and six kids, two of which are 3yo twins. I really don't think she is a stealth juror; she wants her 15 minutes of fame, just like her favorite reality shows. I thought she had a Puerto Rican accent. I seem to remember that there has been a large influx to the Orlando area that helped flip the Hispanic vote to Obama. Although that wouldn't square with coming from Chicago.
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You may get to see argument on for-cause rejection, once the questioning gets beyond pretrial publicity and hardship.  If you are patient and willing to pay the freight, I think the court reporter is taking down what is said at the bench.
Good because it's all getting quite repetitive. Well I should get back to writing anyway.
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Interesting poll.  I only looked at the one page you linked and the graphs on there, but got to thinking what the data would look like with audience size factored in.
Presumably the "total" is wieghted at least.
Now returning to stealth jurors, am I the only one that wondered about B65 not knowing anything but having seen a few t-shirts, even though her church is a few miles from the incident.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2013, 11:29:18 PM »
Of course all the potential jurors pleaded that they didn't know too much, were completely open minded, etc.

Why 'of course'? Don't many, if not most, try to get out of jury service?

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2013, 06:10:58 AM »
Why 'of course'? Don't many, if not most, try to get out of jury service?

I wonder anymore.

We live in an age where a juror on a high profile case can spend time being interviewed on HLN, can maybe write a book...in general be a celebrity.

There's a difference between a high profile case and some boring assault case.

Then again, one of my best friends (who's self employed) will routinely take afternoons off and go sit in random courtrooms just to watch the action. Some people are just nuts for the whole scene.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2013, 06:15:13 AM »
Why 'of course'? Don't many, if not most, try to get out of jury service?
I think if they didn't want to serve, they wouldn't have made it to this stage.  How many of those you have heard sound like they want out?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2013, 06:46:01 AM »
How many of those you have heard sound like they want out?

I don't think any of them seemed to be spinning their answers to get excused. I don't think that necessarily means that they are eager to serve.

One mentioned a potential conflict with a family vacation, and at least one expressed concern about what might happen after his identity became public.

Offline SuzieTampa

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Re: Day Two Thoughts, June 11, 2013
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2013, 04:39:26 PM »
A flippant remark on my part - women may be generally slower to reach a firm opinion in general, or slower to admit it in writing.  Indecisive, talk it to death, etc.  I know that's a stereotype, but I reflect on the juror who had a hard time saying whether being assigned to the case for two months would be a personal hardship.  Yes it would, but I'd like to be on the case, blah blah blah.

On the other hand, men may be more opinionated, and less concerned with juggling their civic responsibilities with their responsibilities at home. Beyond that speculation, it is true that men are much more likely to submit opinion pieces to print media and write letters to the editor. That's been an issue among journalists.


 

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