Author Topic: Short Morning Session - 6/21/13  (Read 8799 times)

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Offline Evil Chinchilla

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Re: Short Morning Session - 6/21/13
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2013, 01:30:02 AM »
W-8 never said where Martin was at the time the confrontation started.

You are cherry-picking pieces of evidence and jamming them together as it suits you.

Extremely lengthy, but since you're accusing me of "cherry-picking," her statement without edits:

Quote
Dee Dee: He say he lost him…breathin’ har’, you know. And I like, he goin’…so he say he lost him.  And then a couple…and then he say he right by his house…he ru’, he go’ keep ru’ ’til hi’ dad house.

BDLR:  OK, let me make sure I understand that he’s saying that he’s “right by his ass”…meaning the guy is right by Trayvon?

Dee Dee: No, he say he lost the guy…

BDLR: OK.

Dee Dee: And then he ran from the back…

BDLR:  Right.

Dee Dee: He say he lost him.

BDLR:  OK.

Dee Dee: He started walking back again…and I told him ‘Keep runnin’.’

BDLR:  So Trayvon said he started walking because he thought he had lost the guy.

Dee Dee: Yeah.


BDLR:  OK.

Dee Dee: I say, ‘Keep runnin’.’

BDLR:  OK.

Dee Dee: He say he ain’t goin’ run, cause he say he right by his father house

BDLR:  OK.

Dee Dee: So, and in a couple minutes…he say the man followin’ him again, behin’ him. And I say, ‘RUN!’  You goin’ to run?  He say he not goin’ run cause…I could have known he not going to run, cause he out of breath.  And then, he told me, he say this guy gettin’ close to him. I told him ‘RUN!’ And then, and then… I tol’ him ‘Keep runnin’.’ He not goin’ run. And then he say…I told him, ‘Why you not runnin’?  He say, ‘I’m not go’ run,’ cause he tired, but I know he tired.

BDLR:  I’m sorry… Trayvon said he’s not running because…he’s not going to run he said…because you could tell he was tired?

Dee Dee: Yeah.


BDLR:  Well, how could you tell he was tired?

Dee Dee: He was breathin’ hard.

BDLR:  OK, real hard?

Dee Dee:  Real hard.

BDLR:  OK. Could you…and you may not have been able to…could you hear whether it was raining at that time or not?

Dee Dee:  It was not raining, cause I hear him OK.

BDLR:  OK, and when you’re telling him “Run, Run, Run”, are you yelling at him, or…

Dee Dee:  I was not yelling at him…[stated emphatically and with some indignation]

BDLR:  I don’t mean yelling, I mean, but were you like, were you being emphatic like…

Dee Dee:  Shouting…shouting at him, yeah.

BDLR:  OK..um…and then what happened?

Dee Dee:  And then he told me like the guy was getting close.. like.. and he told me the guy was getting real close to him.  The next I hear, “What are you following me for?”

BDLR:  OK, so let me make sure I understand this… so, Trayvon tells you the guy’s getting closer to him…

Dee Dee: Yeah.

BDLR:  …and then you hear Trayvon saying something…

Dee Dee:  Yeah.

BDLR:  And what do you hear Trayvon saying?

Dee Dee:  “Why you followin’ me for?”

BDLR:  “Why you following me for?”

Dee Dee: Yeah.

BDLR:  And then what happened?

Dee Dee: I hear this, ya know, man… it wa’ like a ol’ man…

BDLR:  OK.

Dee Dee:  …say, ‘Wha’ you doin’ aroun’ here?’ [mimicking a man's voice—lowering the pitch of her voice]

BDLR:  OK, so you could definitely tell another voice that was not Trayvon’s.

Dee Dee: Yeah, yeah…

BDLR:  And you heard this other voice say what?

Dee Dee: Yeah: “What are you doin’ aroun’ here?”

BDLR:  “What are you doing around here?”  OK.

Dee Dee:  And I call Trayvon…’Trayvon, wha’s goin’ on, wha's goin’ on?’

BDLR:  This is you saying that…

Dee Dee: Yeah.

BDLR: OK.

Dee Dee: Then... I callin’ him… he didn’t answer.

BDLR:  No answer from Trayvon.

Dee Dee:   Yeah... and I hear, I hear a sound like “bump.”  You cou’ hear that Trayvon bump… somebody bumped Trayvon, ’cause I could hear the grass.

BDLR:  OK, so you could hear that there was something going on…

Dee Dee: Yeah.

BDLR:  Like something hitting something?

Dee Dee:  Yeah.

BDLR:  OK.

Dee Dee: You could hear... I could hear the grass thing.

BDLR:  Out of the…

Dee Dee:  Yeah…

BDLR:  …I guess out of the speaker… out of the…

Dee Dee: Yeah.

BDLR:  OK, and then what happened?

Dee Dee:  And then…I was still screaming, I was saying, ‘Trayvon, ‘ ‘Trayvon’…

BDLR:  And there was no response?

Dee Dee: Yeah, and next thing I hear…and next thing, the phone just shut off.

BDLR: The phone shut off?

Dee Dee: It just shut off.

BDLR:  OK, did you hear any kind of screamings like ‘Help me’ or anything like that?

Dee Dee: No.

BDLR:  OK. Did you hear any kind of shot?

Dee Dee: No.

BDLR:  OK. When the phone shut off, did you try calling back?

Dee Dee:  I try calling back like 3 or 2 times.

BDLR:  OK, did you ever get any response?

Dee Dee:  No, and text [unintelligible]…

BDLR:  OK, so the last thing you heard was some kind of noise, like something hitting somebody?

Dee Dee:  Yeah.

BDLR:  OK, and uh…when you heard that noise…something hitting somebody…you didn’t…did you hear the man say anything, or did you hear Trayvon say anything?

Dee Dee:  I can hear a little bit… [inflected to emphasize "a little bit"]

BDLR:  OK, what could you hear?

Dee Dee:  I could just hear like… like, it’s like… the headphone… cause the headphones, he might got off. But I can still hear a little bit…like….

BDLR:  OK, what could you hear?

Dee Dee:  Like a little ‘get off’ some stuff…

BDLR: You heard ‘get off’?

Dee Dee:  Like a little ‘Get off’ [unintelligible—sounds like "now college"]…

BDLR:  Could you tell who was saying that?

Dee Dee:  I coulda’ know Trayvon.

BDLR:  I’m sorry.

Dee Dee:  I coulda' heard Trayvon… Trayvon.

BDLR:  OK, let me make sure I understand…you could hear... it was Trayvon saying that?

Dee Dee:  Yeah. That’s why I was calling his name.

BDLR:  And he was saying what now?

Dee Dee:  Like “get off.”

BDLR:  “Get off?” Is that clear that you were hearing that, or you think you heard that?

Dee Dee:  Yeah, I could hear it a little bit… ”get off… get off,” then the phone just hung up.
[BBM]

In this narrative, W8 says-- twice, yet-- that TM "say he lost the guy" and told her he was going to stop running "cause he say he right by his father house" and that he was going to start walking back.

This context-- which BDLR gets her confirm after he repeats it-- indicates that TM is close to Brandy Green's townhouse and has continued moving towards it when "in a couple minutes… he say the man followin’ him again, behin’ him."

W8 then says she unsuccessfully tried to urge TM to run-- with no indication that TM actually changed location during the exchange-- "[a]nd then he told me like the guy was getting close.. like.. and he told me the guy was getting real close to him.  The next I hear, “What are you following me for?”

W8 then describes hearing an "ol’ man… say, ‘Wha’ you doin’ aroun’ here?’ followed by the sounds of someone getting "bumped" and "the grass thing," followed by "a little ‘get off’ some stuff" just before "the phone just hung up."

But what she does NOT say she heard was TM moving to-- or telling her he was moving to-- a location other than "right by his father house" before the confrontation started.

Her actual words above imply that once TM informed her he saw "the man followin’ him again, behin’ him," he stayed in the same spot until George closed the distance and caught up to him.

As implausible as that seems, what she says doesn't indicate otherwise.

Offline Evil Chinchilla

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Re: Short Morning Session - 6/21/13
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2013, 01:55:10 AM »
Gosh, you've wasted a lot of work on points that aren't in dispute.

Well, you selectively pulled specific points-- actually, chosen segments of points-- out of my post to respond to.

So when you respond to my saying "W18 has been all over the map with her narrative in her media appearances" by saying "in those I have seen, and in her oral and written statements to investigators, my recollection is that she has been quite consistent" you aren't disputing my assessment of her credibility in her statements after her 911 call?

And when you make a post accusing me of "cherry-picking pieces of evidence and jamming them together as it suits you," I'm "wasting a lot of work" responding to that accusation?

Actually, maybe I am.  ::)

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Short Morning Session - 6/21/13
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2013, 05:51:05 AM »
It's what he does.

Offline Evil Chinchilla

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Re: Short Morning Session - 6/21/13
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2013, 10:00:12 AM »
Yeah, but he supplies so much GOOD material here that it's doubly irritating when he does it.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Short Morning Session - 6/21/13
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2013, 11:27:29 AM »
Yeah, but he supplies so much GOOD material here that it's doubly irritating when he does it.

+1000!

 ;D

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Short Morning Session - 6/21/13
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2013, 01:28:02 PM »
So when you respond to my saying "W18 has been all over the map with her narrative in her media appearances" by saying "in those I have seen, and in her oral and written statements to investigators, my recollection is that she has been quite consistent" you aren't disputing my assessment of her credibility in her statements after her 911 call?

In those I have seen, and in her oral and written statements to investigators, my recollection is that she has been quite consistent about hearing two periods of loud, arguing voices, with silence in between.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Short Morning Session - 6/21/13
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2013, 02:24:59 AM »
This context-- which BDLR gets her confirm after he repeats it-- indicates that TM is close to Brandy Green's townhouse and has continued moving towards it when "in a couple minutes… he say the man followin’ him again, behin’ him."

W8 then says she unsuccessfully tried to urge TM to run-- with no indication that TM actually changed location during the exchange

There is also no indication that Martin had stopped walking since the last time she said he was walking.

Quote
Her actual words above imply that once TM informed her he saw "the man followin’ him again, behin’ him," he stayed in the same spot until George closed the distance and caught up to him.

I don't agree that you have quoted a single sentence that implies any such thing.

I apologize for taking so long to get back to you on this. I thought the post would be longer, and it was hard to find the time I thought it would take to compose it. When I got into it, I realized I didn't have as much to say as I thought.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Short Morning Session - 6/21/13
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2013, 02:38:22 AM »

Gosh, you've wasted a lot of work on points that aren't in dispute.

W-8 never said where Martin was at the time the confrontation started.

You are cherry-picking pieces of evidence and jamming them together as it suits you.

Extremely lengthy, but since you're accusing me of "cherry-picking," her statement without edits:

And when you make a post accusing me of "cherry-picking pieces of evidence and jamming them together as it suits you," I'm "wasting a lot of work" responding to that accusation?

You think what I posted at 1:28, was a response to what you posted at 1:30?

My actual response to your post of June 24, 2013, 01:30:02 AM, is above.

 

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