Author Topic: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend  (Read 82588 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #495 on: July 27, 2013, 09:32:59 PM »
What the heck is a pin number for a cell phone account?

Personal identification number

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #496 on: July 27, 2013, 09:41:12 PM »
That "we couldn't find a charger" story took the cake.

I don't recall that story.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #497 on: July 28, 2013, 04:54:49 AM »
I think the phone records would have included the information needed to access the phone. According to the police report, T-Mobile advised that they needed the phone number and the account pin number (17/184).

ETA: It was the pin number that SPD requested from Tracy Martin.


T-Mobile would not be able to help with a pattern lock. They can however reset the phone that has the other two lock options which is a PIN or Password however in order for them to do that the subscriber would have to request them to do so. When the phone is Pattern Locked there are various ways to gain entry but if you as a user have forgotten it the most popular choice is to purposefully make too many attempts which will result in the phone being locked and no further attempts can be made then the phone has to be reset with a Google Sign-In and Password where the swipe code can be reset. When LEO, whoever it was, made too many attempts they could have subpenaed Google for the Sign-In and Password and reset from there, one wonders why this wasn't done.

When SPD asked Tracy for the PIN it could have been one of two things. Either they were asking Tracy for the PIN number for the T-Mobile account or when they wrote "PIN" in the police report they actually meant "Pattern Lock". Now it would seem more likely they would be asking Tracy for his T-Mobile PIN so they can call T-Mobile back and have them reset the phone however as we know T-Mobile can not unlock a phone that is locked with a swipe code. Either way we know Tracy was not being helpful.

I think what happened was either Santiago didn't understand what he was doing or just wrote a bad report, probably a bit of both.

If this phone was in Sybrina's name why are they asking Tracy? Why did the SPD not subpoena T-Mobile for the records? Why did Matt Gutman say they had the records? How did the SPD have ping logs for Trayvon's phone in their file? How come the internal flash memory is over 3Gb when my wife's phone is constantly cleared yet she has little space to work with? Kruidbos mentioned that they could have tried to gain access to the internal flash drive, why was is sent off to California then if it could have been done there? The FDLE as well can't get into phones like they did in Cali? I find that hard to believe. And once they got access why go to Jersey? Again the same questions, Kruidbos and the FDLE couldn't access it then either? They needed to go to Jersey?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #498 on: July 28, 2013, 08:51:51 AM »
If this phone was in Sybrina's name why are they asking Tracy?

That was on 3/5/12, 6 days after the shooting.

I don't know if SPD ever had any contact with Sybrina. I think her first statement in the discovery was to de la Rionda and O'Steen, on 4/2/12 (37/284).

Tracy could have told SPD that he didn't have the PIN because it was Sybrina's account, but according to the report that isn't what he said.

Quote
Why did the SPD not subpoena T-Mobile for the records?

I don't understand this. Do you mean SPD had the power to issue a subpoena on their own authority, without asking a court? Police departments have to ask courts for warrants. It doesn't seem likely to me that they have independent subpoena power.

Miami Herald, 3/21/12
Quote
As for checking the boy’s phone records, Trayvon’s phone was locked and detectives were in the process of getting a subpoena for the records, [Sanford police spokesman Sgt. David] Morgenstern said.

The article doesn't say when SPD initiated the 'process'. It was the next day, 3/22, that Corey took over the investigation.

DiwataMan
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Why did Matt Gutman say they had the records?

I don't know what Gutman report this refers to, or who 'they' would be.

Quote
How did the SPD have ping logs for Trayvon's phone in their file?

I'm not familiar with this either. Is it something that came out at trial?

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #499 on: July 28, 2013, 09:09:47 AM »
Diwataman, what is your take on the failure of the SPD to contact Rachel Jeantel immediately after the shooting.   Was it total incompetence or did it really require a rare phone charger or information from Tracy Martin or what?  TIA.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #500 on: July 28, 2013, 09:29:47 AM »
Diwataman, what is your take on the failure of the SPD to contact Rachel Jeantel immediately after the shooting. . . . did it really require a rare phone charger

Who said it required a rare phone charger?

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #501 on: July 28, 2013, 09:50:37 AM »
Nobody believes it did.  IIRC, it was just an idea bantered about to try to explain why Martin's phone wasn't properly investigated by the SPD right away.  There is discussion of these questions on Aug. 24, 2012 in the old Witness #8 (DeeDee) thread.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #502 on: July 28, 2013, 10:02:06 AM »
In the past, we heard a series of confusing statements as to why the last person on the phone with Martin, Rachel Jeantel, was not contacted by the police right away.  First we heard that the police couldn't find a proper charger for the phone.

Nobody believes it did.  IIRC, it was just an idea bantered about . . . There is discussion of these questions on Aug. 24, 2012 in the old Witness #8 (DeeDee) thread.

I'm not seeing consistency here.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #503 on: July 28, 2013, 06:22:14 PM »
Diwataman, what is your take on the failure of the SPD to contact Rachel Jeantel immediately after the shooting.   Was it total incompetence or did it really require a rare phone charger or information from Tracy Martin or what?  TIA.

I’ve never heard anything about a “rare charger”. The Cellebrite package I would assume they used comes with a wide variety of charging adapters and clearly they got it working at some point as they were able to utilize the 911 function to call themselves with and get the phone number. I don’t want to say at this point that I am sure it was total incompetence because we don’t have the entire story but it seems to me Santiago wasn’t quite familiar with what to do in an investigative framework regarding the cell phone. It seems the phone investigation was delegated to him for some reason I would assume by lead investigator Serino.

I truly wonder why they said the phone was in Sybrina’s name. How can this be? Crump et al said they got the cell phone records by Tracy looking them up but if the phone was in Sybrina’s name then she would have had to do it. Why would they lie about such a thing? Of course Jackson also said a private investigator did it so who knows what to believe.

Let’s just go over some of this. From the 184 pdf it seems like there may have been concerned with the wetness of the phone and they may have let it dry off for a day and then sent it to SCSO on the 28th. But really they don’t need the phone at all. All they have to do is ask Tracy if that was Trayvon’s phone, the carrier used and the phone number. They must have asked Tracy if it was Trayvon’s phone or else why would they be asking him for the info in the first place.

The 27th was a Monday, they could have gotten the SAO to get a subpoena over to T-Mobile that day I’m sure and I’m sure within a few days they would have had at least the basic phone call info; incoming/outgoing, date, time, phone numbers, duration. It should have really been as simple as that, no phone needed, no need to try to get into the phone, no need to ask Tracy for anything else to get into the phone.

But for some odd reason that’s not what we have here. We have a police officer trying to get into the phone itself, why? He has contact with the SAO on the 28th asking if he needs a search warrant but if he’s interested in call info he needs a subpoena not a search warrant. But I think it’s clear either Santigo doesn’t know he doesn’t need the phone to get phone records or that’s not even his concern. Perhaps he thinks all he would need to do is get into the phone then he would not have to worry about getting phone records but that would be the hard way to go about it especially with a phone locked with a swipe code as he clearly must have learned with his process.

He sends the cell phone to SCSO on the 28th to see if they can get into it.

On the 1st they tell him they can’t because of the swipe code.

On the 2nd he gets the phone back. Then we get this on that same day:

“Inv. Singleton contacted a representative from T-Mobile who told her if the Sanford Police Department obtained the cell phone number and the pin number to the account they would be able to access the swipe code on the cell phone.”

They press the “Emergency Call” button that’s available even when the phone is locked and it clearly calls the 911 call center and they call the number back, twice, to confirm. So now they have the phone number. They should already have asked for the number from Tracy yet they do it this way.

Now they think all they need is the pin number to the phone account and T-Mobile says they can reset/bypass/access the swipe code. But we know T-Mobile can’t reset, bypass or access a swipe code yet Santigo persists in this vain and calls Tracy for the PIN number three days later on the 5th?

Something happens with the phone on the 9th but I have no idea what it is. It has something to do with the SCSO again, Sgt. Kent at the SCSO, and is checked back into evidence at the SPD that same day.

The phone sat in evidence for 11 days. Then on the 20th it’s sent to the FDLE for prints where it remained in custody.

NVNM sites an article where Morgenstern said they were in the process of getting a subpoena for the records. I believe there is also an article somewhere out there with Wolfinger saying something about it. In one of the pretrial hearings West was on the stand and testified to the fact they found the cell phone tower ping map for Trayvon’s phone in the SPD file. So clearly a lot more was going on with that phone then we know about. Also from what I understand the SIM card contains the last call info which the SCSO was able to access when Santiago was talking to them.

Gutman @1:14 “Police had the call logs…and her[Rachel’s] number…”
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/trayvon-martin-investigating-investigation-15965498

Gutman could be lying there.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 06:23:46 PM by DiwataMan »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #504 on: July 28, 2013, 06:34:56 PM »
Crump et al said they got the cell phone records by Tracy looking them up but if the phone was in Sybrina’s name then she would have had to do it.

I would think anyone could do it if Sybrina gave them the account number and PIN.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #505 on: July 28, 2013, 06:59:03 PM »
They press the “Emergency Call” button that’s available even when the phone is locked and it clearly calls the 911 call center and they call the number back, twice, to confirm. So now they have the phone number. They should already have asked for the number from Tracy yet they do it this way.

They should have assumed the phone they found was the one Tracy thought TM was carrying? I don't think so.

Quote
Gutman @1:14 “Police had the call logs…and her[Rachel’s] number…”
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/trayvon-martin-investigating-investigation-15965498

Gutman could be lying there.

I don't take anything Gutman says seriously, any more than Crump.

Thanks for the round-up.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #506 on: July 28, 2013, 07:27:13 PM »
They should have assumed the phone they found was the one Tracy thought TM was carrying? I don't think so.

That's not what I'm saying. It's not stated in the report how they figured out it was Trayvon's phone. All I'm saying is it would have been simple to ask Tracy to identify it, ask him for the carrier and phone number. They wouldn't need him for anything more after that.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #507 on: July 28, 2013, 07:33:46 PM »
I would think anyone could do it if Sybrina gave them the account number and PIN.

I suppose perhaps depending on the T-Mobile rep one talks to. Regardless, the records we have show Tracy's name, if it's Sybrina's account why does it show his name? And if Santiago's method was to get the cell phone number utilizing the Emergency Call function and looked that number up showing as T-Mobile then called T-Mobile you would think they would tell him the number is registered to Sybrina and they would have then called her yet they called Tracy instead. How did that happen if it's in Sybrina's name?

Offline unitron

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #508 on: July 28, 2013, 08:21:44 PM »
I wonder if the phone was on Tracy's account on 2/26/12 and subsequently moved to Sybrina's account.

That info probably wouldn't be stored on the phone itself--it would only know its own phone number, and any special relationships between that number and any other would be stored on the T-Mobile servers.


Offline MJW

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Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
« Reply #509 on: July 28, 2013, 10:27:52 PM »
I wonder if the phone was on Tracy's account on 2/26/12 and subsequently moved to Sybrina's account.

The ownership of the phone account has me confused. The phone records provided by Crump have "Welcome, tracy" suggesting it was Tracy's account rather than Sybrina's.

 

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