Author Topic: Lindzee Folgate (Physician Assistant at Altamonte Family Practice), 6/28/13  (Read 9571 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SuzieTampa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • Rate Post +0/-0
What's interesting about it as related to GZ?

Just that he had a high resting pulse rate. I'm not saying this is some vital clue, just an interesting thought.

Offline jjr495

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Just that he had a high resting pulse rate. I'm not saying this is some vital clue, just an interesting thought.
Look at page 4 of this large study. Z was far outside the normal range. He must have been in a rather severe state of stress. MOM should have made more of this to counteract the notion that Z was calm.
Also thanks for the article on the association with anti-social behavior and low heart rate. I had no idea such an association existed. I read a couple studies on adolescents. It seems that the association with aggressive behavior is weak but highly statistically significant. Most of this can be explained by genetic predisposition. As such,  having a high heart rate is probably a poor predictor of non-aggressive behavior.

Offline annoyedbeyond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Not that far out.

She testified she'd be looking for 70-80, he was at 90. Yes, he was feeling some stress but it's not that far out. Add to that his injuries and his being up all night at the police station going over and over it--90bpm isn't that bad.

You can't take his resting pulse rate at the doctors office some 15-16 hours after he'd been in his first fight, gotten his nose broken, head slammed, killed a kid, been cuffed, taken to the PD, interrogated and kept up all night as an indication of what his resting pulse would ordinarily be.


Offline jjr495

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Not that far out.

She testified she'd be looking for 70-80, he was at 90.
Sorry, I shouldn't have relied on my poor memory.  I had remembered 108. I would make a very poor witness. There is no way that I could remember all the specific details that Jeantel remembers on her last two calls with Martin that ended in "just a fight".

Offline redstripe

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Sorry, I shouldn't have relied on my poor memory.  I had remembered 108. I would make a very poor witness. There is no way that I could remember all the specific details that Jeantel remembers on her last two calls with Martin that ended in "just a fight".
I remember her saying it was in the 100s as well, I'll have to go back and check the video again.

Offline annoyedbeyond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
  • Rate Post +0/-0
The PDF of her medical report as hosted by the Miami Herald lists his resting pulse as being 109. I could've sworn I heard her say 90, and I'm not sure I have time to go back and listen to her testimony to see where I got confused.

But as of right this moment it appears I'm wrong. On a positive note, jjr was wrong too! ;D ;)

Okay, so he was closer than me. Whatever. LOL.

http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/07/03/15/01/2uxIe.So.56.pdf

It's on page 2(of 4).


ETA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNBAwMm4UOM

around 21 minutes in. I got lucky with the skipping around. She did say 109. I have no idea where I got 90 from.

I actually like 109 better. Much more indicative of the stress he had to be under.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 11:28:07 AM by annoyedbeyond »

Offline cboldt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1262
  • Rate Post +0/-0
I remember her saying it was in the 100s as well, I'll have to go back and check the video again.

Fresh from listening to a recording.
Pulse at 109, ideally we see this at 70 to 80.

Edit to add that this is at 1:59:40 or so on the recording that I have.  Just in case I have to find it again.

Offline jjr495

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
  • Rate Post +0/-0
I doubt we have seen the last physician on the witness stand. The defense will probably use this heart rate factoid, albeit in a small way, to help counter the State's insinuation that Z's calm demeanor is indicative of a cold-blooded, scheming killer.
Hopefully we have heard the last of Z's constipation.

Offline annoyedbeyond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
  • Rate Post +0/-0
I doubt we have seen the last physician on the witness stand. The defense will probably use this heart rate factoid, albeit in a small way, to help counter the State's insinuation that Z's calm demeanor is indicative of a cold-blooded, scheming killer.
Hopefully we have heard the last of Z's constipation.

Who started the constipation thing btw? I want to say it was Bernie, but I'm doubting my recollections at this point.

If it was Bernie, why did he do it? I remember wondering WTF at the time.

I know MOM brought it up just to point out that the back pain of being body slammed on concrete was different than the back pain of constipation.


Offline unitron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1060
  • Rate Post +0/-0
I found what you may be thinking of. For some reason, the last 4 minutes of the reenactment aren't included in most internet versions.

1:33-45
Of course she may have mentioned the issue in a report as well.

And those usually not included 4 minutes do a much better job of showing the black eyes than the earlier part, at least on a computer monitor, and considering how much more noticible they are in the earlier part on a (larger) television screen now that I've seen it there, I'm thinking if that last 4 minutes were broadcast he'd look like a racoon.

Offline Meni

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Great question from O'Mara before the weekend recess.

I really liked how O'Mara handled this cross and re-cross.  He not only thoroughly establishes great bodily harm and points out additional wounds, but by highlighting the inability of a medical professional to measure and conclude all of the potential head trauma injuries that Zimmerman may or may not continue to suffer immediately AFTER his altercation from Martin, how would Zimmerman know DURING the altercation that the assault would be limited to surface wounds instead of significant brain injury or even his death.

It was as if he almost subtly puts it before the jury (because he will come back to self defense 'later on') that being able to measure them or not measure them is really not necessary- it is justifying stopping them or the threat of them.

And his ending the re-cross by getting the PA to admit that whatever Zimmerman did appeared to have stopped additional injuries,  he approaches justification by the flanks with the jury-

and yes they are left all weekend to chew that over.

Offline ding7777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Rate Post +19/-59
One of the problems for GZ is his claim of being smothered even though he was screaming for 40 seconds and there is none of  GZ's blood on TM's hands/fingernails.

So when O’Mara asks where blood from a bloody nose goes while lying on the back.  And she says it can be swallowed and can go into the sinuses. O'mara can argue that this would have the same sensation as being smothered


Offline annoyedbeyond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
  • Rate Post +0/-0
One of the problems for GZ is his claim of being smothered even though he was screaming for 40 seconds and there is none of  GZ's blood on TM's hands/fingernails.

So when O’Mara asks where blood from a bloody nose goes while lying on the back.  And she says it can be swallowed and can go into the sinuses. O'mara can argue that this would have the same sensation as being smothered

Except that O'Mara got the PA to testify that most of the blood in that situation would go down the throat and into the sinuses.
So why is it a problem?

Also, check and see if TM's hands were actually checked or just looked at. There is a difference I think.

Offline ding7777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Rate Post +19/-59
.
So why is it a problem?


Its not (I think we agree)  I was just commenting that O'mara can argue that this would have the same sensation as being smothered

Offline annoyedbeyond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
  • Rate Post +0/-0
Its not (I think we agree)  I was just commenting that O'mara can argue that this would have the same sensation as being smothered

Something I wish people would stop doing (and I'm not accusing you, ding) is this belief that smothering means cutting off the air totally.

Since MMA seems to be a big deal in this case, let's look at that for a minute--in MMA fights the guy on top will (sometimes) try to keep the other guy from catching his breath by keeping his hand over the mouth nose area. That doesn't mean it's clamped tight, that means it's there to interfere which produces a sensation kinda like drowning, especially in a situation where you're going to be gasping for air.

Add to that the blood in the throat/sinuses that Folgate testified to and yeah--it would be hard to breathe.

I submit, especially for George since by all accounts this was his first ever actual fight, he had nothing to compare the feeling to.

 

Site Meter
click
tracking