Author Topic: Thoughts on Week One of Trial  (Read 18926 times)

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Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2013, 06:10:15 PM »
Is this an argument about semantics?  I think two guys wandering around a very dark area, not being able to see each other, bumping into each other after 4 minutes can be regarded as a happenstance.

Except GZ had a flashlight. TM would've been able--was able--to at least see where he was, if not actually see him.

ETA: LOL. cboldt beat me to it.

Offline Jujube

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2013, 06:23:48 PM »
What evidence do you have that GZ ran behind Martin? If GZ had run up to the "T" he would have been out of breath. Do you really believe GZ intended to catch up to Martin? If so, what's your evidence for that implausible belief. If it wasn't happenstance (and I doubt it was), they met because Martin wanted them to meet.

Even if he walked behind TM, he was still behind TM.  Do you think TM had a big "FOLLOW ME" sign that he waved in front of GZ?  You think he taunted him with the Arizona can and the Skittles?

 
Except GZ had a flashlight. TM would've been able--was able--to at least see where he was, if not actually see him.


And, of course, GZ wouldn't be able to see him....  ::)

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2013, 06:23:59 PM »
So Martin can't see Zimmerman's little flashlight, right?
He might see the tiny flashlight faintly but he certainly couldn't tell it was Zimmerman unless he was within maybe 10-15 feet of him.  Good with his porch light on could barely make out figures 20 feet away.  Of course I'm roughly guessing but considering the length of the entire dogwalk, being that close to the T at the same time Zimmerman crossed the top of it could be an unlucky accident.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 06:27:43 PM by RickyJim »

Offline Jujube

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2013, 06:26:44 PM »
Since everyone is talking about gun use and concealed carry, I actually lived and worked in the area around Sanford for 10 years and I'm the approximate age of the jurors (plus I'm a white woman). 

While gun use was common in the area, I don't know anyone who was okay with "careless" gun use.  If those women feel like GZ was careless, he's not going to get a pass just because he has a permit. 

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2013, 06:29:01 PM »
Even if he walked behind TM, he was still behind TM.  Do you think TM had a big "FOLLOW ME" sign that he waved in front of GZ?  You think he taunted him with the Arizona can and the Skittles?

 
And, of course, GZ wouldn't be able to see him....  ::)

Have you ever tried to see 50 feet in the dark with one of those tiny keychain flashlights?
 ::) yourself.

Offline MJW

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2013, 06:29:38 PM »
Even if he walked behind TM, he was still behind TM.  Do you think TM had a big "FOLLOW ME" sign that he waved in front of GZ?  You think he taunted him with the Arizona can and the Skittles?

But even if GZ ran, it's high unlikely he was intending to meet TM. If he walked, it's virtually impossible. So if they met, it wasn't because Zimmerman intended they meet. Either they met by happenstance or they met because Martin wanted them to meet.

Offline Jujube

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2013, 06:33:59 PM »
But even if GZ ran, it's high unlikely he was intending to meet TM. If we walked, it's virtually impossible. So if they met, it wasn't because Zimmerman intended they meet. Either they met by happenstance or they met because Martin wanted them to meet.

I don't think Martin wanted to meet him.  That's why Martin ran away from him. 

You know, all of this is going to come down to the jury  I think he would have had an easier time if there was at least one male on the jury. 

Offline cboldt

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #82 on: June 29, 2013, 06:41:35 PM »
I don't think Martin wanted to meet him.  That's why Martin ran away from him. 

You know, all of this is going to come down to the jury  I think he would have had an easier time if there was at least one male on the jury.

If Martin ran away, how did Zimmerman catch Martin?  That seems to me to be a fundamental logic fail, given the evidence.  Do you think it is necessary to have a man on the jury to prevent fundamental logic fail?

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2013, 06:43:34 PM »
I don't think Martin wanted to meet him.  That's why Martin ran away from him. 

You know, all of this is going to come down to the jury  I think he would have had an easier time if there was at least one male on the jury.

You seem to be forgetting that Rachel said over and over "he right by his father house".

They met because TM wanted to meet. Trayvon certainly had every opportunity to go in the damn house.

Or even just keep his head down and wait for GZ to go back to his truck to meet the cops.

Offline redstripe

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #84 on: June 29, 2013, 06:49:25 PM »
 
Even if he walked behind TM, he was still behind TM.  Do you think TM had a big "FOLLOW ME" sign that he waved in front of GZ?  You think he taunted him with the Arizona can and the Skittles?


If you accept that TM was allowed to remain outside near the T and didn't have any legal obligation to go home as fast as possible when he saw GZ, then you also have to accept that GZ was similarly innocent of any legal transgression for his decision to move into the same area that Martin decided to remain in, even if he had previously jogged in the same direction as Martin for ten or fifteen seconds.  Considering the fact that once GZ got out of his car, TM was only in his line of sight for a very brief period of time, I don't think that characterizing one of them as being in front or behind the other is really as significant  as many people make it out to be.

I don't think Martin wanted to meet him.  That's why Martin ran away from him. 


My theory is that although neither GZ or TM were, at least initially, extremely gung-ho about having a fight, Martin seemed to be the more aggressive of the two from the onset.   Compare how TM walked right up to GZ's vehicle and circled around it to how GZ waited until TM was definitely moving away from him before he decided to get out of his car.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 07:02:00 PM by redstripe »

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #85 on: June 29, 2013, 06:55:14 PM »
If Martin ran away, how did Zimmerman catch Martin?  That seems to me to be a fundamental logic fail, given the evidence.  Do you think it is necessary to have a man on the jury to prevent fundamental logic fail?

I think she's saying that women won't fall for logic fail--but if there was a man he'd be easier to snow.


Offline RickyJim

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #86 on: June 29, 2013, 06:55:31 PM »
No thread for Diana Smith, the evidence collector?  Well I'll say it here.  Watermelon juice can in hoodie pocket and 711 bag found on ground between the Good and Lauer/Weinberg houses seems to be good for the defense.  Most probable explanation is Martin hurriedly put the can in his pocket, carelessly dropping the bag, because he needed to have both hands free for some reason.  Sounds good for closing defense argument.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #87 on: June 29, 2013, 09:25:33 PM »
Three reasons I prefer the happenstance theory of the Martin-Zimmerman meeting at the T over the lie in wait theory are:

1. The can in pocket with bag on ground indicates a sudden decision to stash the drink away when Zimmerman appeared a few feet in front of him.
2. Rachel's telling West that if Trayvon decided to do the confronting he would have told her he would call her back seemed to be a spontaneous statement from her and probably based on prior experience.  (West should have explored it though, instead of getting indignant and accusatory with her.)  So I think Martin just didn't have the time to hang up when Zimmerman suddenly appeared walking back to TTL.
3. If he was close enough to recognize Zimmerman going towards RVC, why didn't he confront him then?  Why would he lie in wait and hope Zimmerman might come back?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #88 on: June 29, 2013, 09:57:20 PM »
Most probable explanation is Martin hurriedly put the can in his pocket, carelessly dropping the bag

If he was in a hurry, why did he take the can out of the bag?

Neither side has mentioned the can being out the bag. I suspect that's because neither side has come up with a plausible way to argue that it supports their case.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Thoughts on Week One of Trial
« Reply #89 on: June 29, 2013, 10:17:00 PM »
Have you ever tried to see 50 feet in the dark with one of those tiny keychain flashlights?
 ::) yourself.

Surdyka saw two people on the ground at a distance of 80 feet or more, with no flashlight.

 

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