Author Topic: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13  (Read 7425 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2013, 01:38:39 PM »
Nelson ruled material related to two classes, I think she said criminal litigation and criminal investigation, to be admitted. Anything about other courses must be redacted.

Mantei said they have a witness ready, I think for criminal investigation. Pleasance IIRC is criminal litigation.

Offline redstripe

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2013, 01:43:23 PM »
I think if the state is allowed to question the professor about the class where they talked about stand your ground, the defense should be able to have him talk for four five hours about the other 100 or so lectures GZ attended while taking the course under the doctrine of completeness.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2013, 01:44:02 PM »
O'Mara argued the state will have to show GZ attended the classes at which the info was presented.

Mantei said O'Mara keeps changing his objection.

Offline cboldt

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2013, 01:44:57 PM »
ETA: Nelson still arguing. It feels like she's stealing Mantei's job.

I had the same impression.

She appears to be inclined to allow evidence that shows Zimmerman education as to law of self defense (which seems to go by the catchall "SYG" acronym).

Criminal Investigation is the course taught by Professor Pleasant.  Evidence of Zimmerman taking that and one other course, Criminal Litigation, will be allowed Nelson just ruled.

Professor Carter will testify on the Criminal Litigation course.  He is available at the courthouse.  Mantei provides the course book and homework assignments to Nelson.  There is also a final project paper.

O'Mara argues that the state drew in the Hannity interview, and are now attempting, solely for the purpose of impeachment.  "They can't open their own door."  O'Mara says the state could have redacted that part of the Hannity interview.  The book has nothing about SYG, so he presumes (edit to complete this sentence) thatthe evidence will come in via live testimony.

Nelson says she does not agree with O'Mara.  Mantei says that the Hannity interview (with redaction) came in under stipulation, IOW, defense agreed to present Zimmerman's SYG remark, on Hannity, the the jury.  Nelson goes on to say that the state's theory of the case is, in part, Zimmerman inconsistencies, and they need to be able to put that on.  O'Mara can deal with it on cross exam.  She sounds like she will recess for half an hour while O'Mara researches case law.

O'Mara goes on to say that the state should also have to prove that Zimmerman was in class.

Mantei says the point is Zimmerman had access to the material in the class, and in the book (well hell, we all have access to the law, it's public - so are all the court cases).

Nelson recess for half an hour.  Argument to follow.  Application to be a police officer, dated July 2009.  Application for ride along 3/15/2010, she will consider those during the recess.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 01:54:17 PM by cboldt »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2013, 01:48:56 PM »
One of the records is 7/8/09 rejected application for GZ to become a police officer, I think in Virginia.

3:44 PM, recess for half an hour. Nelson will examine the exhibits she hasn't ruled on, O'Mara to research case law to support his arguments for excluding the proffered evidence.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2013, 01:53:31 PM »
She appears to be inclined to allow evidence that shows Zimmerman education as to law of self defense (which seems to go by the catchall "SYG" acronym).

No, Mantei said the course that covered self-defense, specifically included SYG. I think the distinction is clear to Mantei at least.

Offline redstripe

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2013, 01:54:52 PM »
I had the same impression.

She appears to be inclined to allow evidence that shows Zimmerman education as to law of self defense (which seems to go by the catchall "SYG" acronym).

The right of self defense is a part of common law and its been a part of civic culture in the anglo-sphere for centuries. Whether or not GZ heard some additional comments about it from a professor adds little to the conversation, it's sort of like saying that they should allow TM's principal to testify about him because he spoke at an assembly about violence that TM went to when he was a freshmen.

Offline Redbrow

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2013, 01:56:48 PM »
No, Mantei said the course that covered self-defense, specifically included SYG. I think the distinction is clear to Mantei at least.
So taking a low level course at a second rate community college makes you an expert on law but a judge who graduated from Law school and practiced for decades makes it clear she is not yet an expert on the law in every matter...

Offline cboldt

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2013, 01:58:14 PM »
No, Mantei said the course that covered self-defense, specifically included SYG. I think the distinction is clear to Mantei at least.

Not worth arguing about, my point (which may have missed the entire legal argument going on in court) was just that the state wanted to show Zimmerman knowledge of the law of self defense, no matter what shorthand the law of self defense is referred to as.

Offline redstripe

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2013, 02:07:15 PM »
Not worth arguing about, my point (which may have missed the entire legal argument going on in court) was just that the state wanted to show Zimmerman knowledge of the law of self defense, no matter what shorthand the law of self defense is referred to as.

I could see this possibly being admissible if the state was charging him with first degree murder under the theory that he had planned to kill TM and make it look like self defense to get away with it.  But as it stands this just seems like a cheap character attack designed to discredit him in a broad way and doesn't really add anything to the State's theory of what actually happened at the T.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2013, 02:07:35 PM »
Not worth arguing about, my point (which may have missed the entire legal argument going on in court) was just that the state wanted to show Zimmerman knowledge of the law of self defense, no matter what shorthand the law of self defense is referred to as.

And I am saying that Mantei was not, in fact, using 'SYG' as shorthand to refer to self-defense law in general. He wants to show GZ's knowledge of Florida self-defense law, and he wants to show GZ's knowledge of SYG in particular.

Offline cboldt

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2013, 02:13:44 PM »
He wants to show GZ's knowledge of Florida self-defense law, and he wants to show GZ's knowledge of SYG in particular.

Well, that's what I meant.  He wants to show Zimmerman knowledge of self defense law.  There is no difference between the law of self defense in Florida, and the set of laws referred to as SYG.  They are the same thing.

Now, perhaps Mantei wants to blow some smoke and create some confusion, and invoke some mystical power that follows the term "SYG."  I have that impression, because Hannity, bless his heart, asked about SYG, Zimmerman said he didn't know about SYG, and now Mantie can point to coursework that covers SYG.  Ergo, underpants gnome, Zimmerman is a liar and a murderer. -add Mantei grin here-

Offline cboldt

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2013, 02:19:07 PM »
Case law on Zimmerman academic work to be taken up tomorrow morning.

Mantei says his witnesses are from out of town, but he'll arrange them to stay.  Next witness being brought upstairs.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2013, 02:19:43 PM »
4:17 PM

O'Mara was arguing. Nelson asked if state had witnesses on another issue, was told they do. She suggested taking that witness now. State agreed.

The witness is being brought up.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Week 2, 2nd Day, 7/2/13
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2013, 02:21:47 PM »
O'Mara says he has depositions scheduled for the evening, starting at 5:30.

Nelson called for jury to be brought in.

 

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