Author Topic: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation  (Read 5421 times)

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Offline TalkLeft

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2013, 12:41:17 AM »
Please stay on topic of the computer animation exhibit.
you can debate what Zimmerman did or did not do in the theories or pretrial forums.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2013, 03:05:11 PM »
I think the collection of Zimmerman statements account for his location for the entire time period.  In the truck, sees Martin at Taffee's, drives the truck to the clubhouse.  Martin goes past the truck, Zimmermn drives the truck down the street, loses sight of Martin, Martin comes back, martin runs, Zimmerman gets out of the truck and walks East on the E-W segment of walkway past the T to the street, and then walks West on the same segment of walkway until Martin speaks to him.

I don't see this accounting for any time. It's a narrative, a list of events. I'm not seeing any numbers of seconds.

There's also an event missing.

SPD 2/29-3, 13:16-34
Quote
Zimmerman: I walked through. I stopped on Retreat View Circle.
Serino: That's where you were standing?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. But you didn't get back into your car?
Zimmerman: No, sir.
Serino: Why not?
Zimmerman: I was -
Serino: You're in the rain. You're getting wet. You're on the phone.
Zimmerman: Because I was waiting - I had light there. Where I was at. And I was trying to hit my flashlight. I didn't want to walk back through without light.

In other interviews, GZ indicated that he started walking back around the time he finished giving the dispatcher directions to his truck.

SPD 2/26-1, 12:59-13:29
Quote
Zimmerman: And I, I had gone where, through the dog walk where I normally walk my dog, and walked back through to my street, the street that loops around. And he said "We already have a police officer on the way." So I said "OK." I told, they said "Would you like a police officer to meet you?" And I said "Yes." And I told them where my car was, and the make and the model.
Singleton: Mmmhmm.
Zimmerman: So I was walking back through to where my car was. And he jumped out from the bushes.

SPD 2:26-2, 4:50-5:50
Quote
Singleton: OK. But you continue straight on the sidewalk -
Zimmerman: Yes ma'am.
Singleton: - over to this side? OK.
Zimmerman: Yes, ma'am. All the way through. (4:53-54)
Singleton: And then what happens when you get here?  You decide that, you still don't know whether, where you're at?
Zimmerman: I still didn't know where I was at, but I was able to give the dispatcher a description from the clubhouse.
Singleton: Mmhmm.
Zimmerman: I said, they come straight in, past the clubhouse, and my car is right here.
Singleton: So you walk here. And when you get here, you realize, OK, I'm just gonna go back to my car? Is that what happens, or - ?
Zimmerman: No. The dispatcher says, "Would you like a police officer to still come out," because I said "I don't know where he went." 
Singleton: OK.
Zimmerman: And they said "Well, where do you want them to meet you?" And I said "At my car." So I start walking back towards my car.

Reenactment, 6:39-7:08
Quote
Zimmerman: And they said "We don't need you to do that." And I said "OK". So I, that's when I walked straight through here, to get the address, so  -
Sgt. Smith: Mmhmm.
Zimmerman: - that I could meet the police officer. And then they said, I said "He's not here." They said "Do you still want them to come?" And I said "Yes." And they said "Where do you want him to come to?" And I said, "You know what, just tell him to meet me at my truck, next to the clubhouse. If you go straight in through the clubhouse and makes [sic] a left, I have a Honda Ridgeland, a silver Honda Ridgeland, it's parked right there, I'll meet him right there." So then I started walking back.

It's also in the CVSA, but the CVSA isn't in evidence so I won't cite to it.

Earlier in 2/29-3 is a slightly different version, the only one in which GZ explicitly said that he left RVC before he had finished giving directions.

SPD 2/29-3, 10:20-51
Quote
[Recording]
(D) -ight, George, what's your last name?
(Z) Zimmerman.
(D) And George, what's the phone number you're calling from?
(Z) Four oh seven, four three five, two four zer-

Serino: Where are you at now?
Zimmerman: On Retreat View Circle, I think.
Serino: OK.

[Recording]
(Z) - zero zero.
(D) Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
(Z) Yeah.
(D) Alright, where are you gonna meet with them at?
(Z) If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse -

Serino: What are you doing right now?
Zimmerman: Walking back to my car.

Just before GZ tells the dispatcher his last name, comes the first of the sounds widely believed to be GZ tapping his flashlight. They continue for about 48 seconds.

GZ himself seems to allude to these sounds later in the 2/29 interview, as Serino played that part of the recording again.

SPD 2/29-3, 11:55-12:08
Quote
[Recording]
(Z) If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse, and -

Zimmerman: [Unintelligible] hitting my flashlight, as I was walking.

In this version, GZ tapped his flashlight as walked back from RVC.

In every version of the story before 2/29, the NEN call ended just after GZ gave directions. Then GZ was confronted with the recording, on which the call continues for another 45 seconds. That raised the question of how GZ got off the phone before TM accosted him, and apparently led to the change of story, in which GZ remained on RVC to tap his flashlight.

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2013, 03:24:26 AM »
Sorry, I was removing Jujube's post about the clubhouse video for containing an unproven assertion as fact (whether GZ's vehicle is seen in the clubhouse video) and I deleted Annoyed's response linking to Diwataman's post on this by accident as well. Annoyed, please feel free to repost.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2013, 06:30:29 AM »
Sorry, I was removing Jujube's post about the clubhouse video for containing an unproven assertion as fact (whether GZ's vehicle is seen in the clubhouse video) and I deleted Annoyed's response linking to Diwataman's post on this by accident as well. Annoyed, please feel free to repost.

No need, thanks though.

Offline Cylinder

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2013, 08:35:47 PM »
From the Seminole County Clerk of Courts' Detailed Case View:

Quote
07/05/2013  MNFD  --...STATE'S SUPPLEMENTAL [...] MOTION IN LIMINE REGARDING COMPUTER ANIMATION WAS FILED IN OPEN COURT

This supplemental motion is not yet posted to the GZ Legal Case or 18th Circuit sites.

Offline DiwataMan

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2013, 09:53:07 PM »
Sorry, I was removing Jujube's post about the clubhouse video for containing an unproven assertion as fact (whether GZ's vehicle is seen in the clubhouse video) and I deleted Annoyed's response linking to Diwataman's post on this by accident as well. Annoyed, please feel free to repost.

Well I don't know what juju said but the state did try to "go there" with the video and the phone records.

Offline IgnatiusJDonnelly

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2013, 09:51:29 AM »
He also told the distacher to have the cops call him so he could give his location when they arrived.
It seemed like he wasn't sure where he'd be when they arrived.

Offline Cylinder

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2013, 10:43:25 AM »
State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation

Among the objections:

Quote
Artificially depicts lighting conditions which the witness admitted bear absolutely no resemblance to the actual conditions; in fact, no attempt whatsoever was made to account for lighting.

Relies in part upon statements in police reports, some of which were in fact contrary to testimony repeated by the same witness in court, and wholly fails to include statements from other witnesses of a contradictory nature;

Purports to depict the murder committed by Defendant in the instant case but deliberately fails to show or even symbolize the murder weapon; in fact, the witness testified that he deliberately omitted any depiction of the firearm in question at the direction of defense counsel.

Depicts the angle of two figures struggling, the percentage of the figures in certain locations such as a sidewalk, the number of blows being depicted, the angles and reactions to those blows, the behavior of the figure representing Victim after the fatal gunshot was inflicted by Defendant, and the position of one body relative to another based completely on “approximations” made by the witness;

ls based upon data collected when the witness joumeyed to the scene of the murder and instructed two unnamed employees of Defendant’s law firm to don “motion capture” suits while the witness directed them where to position themselves and what actions to take, again based upon the aforementioned approximations;

Purports to correlate certain actions occurring during the animation with particular portions of 911 calls, and overlays the animation with audio from those calls, without any foundation for such speculation;

Premises the location of two struggling figures on the location of a shell casing, which the witness assumed (without knowing the type of firearm or having any expertise in ballistics) was ejected to the right of the firearm; assumed (without foundation) ejected a particular distance and direction from the firearm; and assumed that the figures arrived in their initial position from which the shot was fired without having any idea how that arrival occurred.

Purports to show the location of a witness at a specific point on a patio, which the witness admitted was an assumed perspective;

The witness admitted that the exhibit was created only using items provided by defense counsel and that he had “no idea” whether there might be additional evidence, statements, or items bearing on the accuracy of the depiction; nor did the witness make any such inquiry.

The witness changed the location of the figures in the animation, as well as their orientation, based upon what defense counsel relayed to him about what a witness said in court;

The animation purports to depict Victim as being left-handed, without factual basis;

ETA: Interns in motion capture suits. LOL
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 10:45:45 AM by Cylinder »

Offline cboldt

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2013, 11:15:59 AM »
State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation

Among the objections:
 
ETA: Interns in motion capture suits. LOL

I see that Mantei remedied the objection that I raised a few days ago.  The initial motion did not describe the alleged deficiencies in the CG animation.  The initial motion is dated 24 June, this one comes about two weeks later on 5 July.

Offline Cylinder

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2013, 11:32:52 AM »
Whatever order Nelson just distributed to the parties in the after-lunch sidebar prompted BDLR to show the title to Mantei with a big smile, so if it's this order then it's probably not a good thing.

Offline Cylinder

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2013, 11:38:56 AM »
BTW: The last linked motion should be titled State's Supplemental Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation. I screwed that up.

Offline cboldt

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2013, 04:40:07 PM »
So, Daubert hearing is quickly converted to a Richardson hearing by Mantei, immediately after the animator appears.

Nelson asks Mantei to express the remedy.  He wants more time.  He wants to depose Schumaker and de Maio, and argue from there.  He presumes defendant will overcome Duabert.

Nelson suggests that the issue isn't qualification, it is contents of the animation.  Mantei says again he thinks the expert and the software are admissible, and the other issues are (edit) not Daubert.  Nelson wonders why there needs to be a Daubert hearing.  Mantei says he didn't ask for one.  ROTFL.

Nelson will allow deposition of Schumaker right now.  Recess Court, resume at 8:30 tomorrow.

O'Mara says the other proffer would consume 45 minutes, and that will occur prior to Connor's testimony.

Bernardo says the state may need to depose de Maio (who has spoken with Schumaker).  Nelson suggests that can be covered via telephone.  O'Mara informs the court that the issues communicated by de Maio to Schumaker are angle of gunshot and distance between skin and clothing, which do not appear in detail in the animation.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 04:43:28 PM by cboldt »

Offline unitron

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Re: State's Motion in Limine Regarding Computer Animation
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2013, 12:18:33 AM »
...

Nelson asks Mantei to express the remedy.  He wants more time.  ...

From Tick-Tock Nelson?

 ;D


 

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