Author Topic: Your Theories  (Read 22055 times)

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Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #105 on: July 20, 2013, 11:03:44 AM »
O'Brien said that he thought the stucco incident happened a few months before 2/26/12

Video, 12:06
Quote
Mantei: Give me the time frame, on about when that happened.
O'Brien: I'm thinking, oh, gosh. I would have to guess. I'm not, I couldn't -
Mantei: OK. Let me ask you this. Just in general terms. Was it close in time to the shooting that's related in this case? 
O'Brien: Yeah, I think it was a couple of months before that. Yes.

When Mantei opened the subject, probably with notes or records on the podium, he said it was in 2012 (9:26). That narrows it down to January and February.

10:11-21
Quote
O'Brien: And, I was down there, talking to the guys to see how progress was going. And this gentleman walked down the street, who we'd seen numerous times before. And he just stood in the middle of the street, talking to us.

NEN, 2/2/12
Quote
Zimmerman: And now, this gentleman was walking in the neighborhood. And I've seen him before, on trash days, going around picking up trash.

I think O'Brien, testifying well over a year later, was off by a few weeks. I think this is the same event GZ referenced, and it was in February 2012, between GZ's 2/2 and 2/26 NEN calls.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #106 on: July 20, 2013, 12:42:45 PM »
O'Brien said that he thought the stucco incident happened a few months before 2/26/12 so that is not consistent with the sudden change being on the 26th.  The description he gave of how the burglar was caught by following at a distance, mentioned it happened at lunchtime.  So Zimmerman thinking he could do the same with Martin, in the dark, cannot be rationally justified.


It would if Martin had fled down RVC rather than the dog track. RVC was not dark. Conceivably GZ could have seen him at a distance as he exited the back gate.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #107 on: July 20, 2013, 06:07:24 PM »
Was the person the stucco workers followed and Zimmerman saw in front of Taaffe's house on 2/2/12, Emanuel Burgess?  I don't think that name was given during O'Brien's testimony.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #108 on: July 20, 2013, 06:16:09 PM »

It would if Martin had fled down RVC rather than the dog track. RVC was not dark. Conceivably GZ could have seen him at a distance as he exited the back gate.
It would have taken 15 seconds for Zimmerman to drive to a position where he could observe anybody exiting either the dog path or RVC on their way to the back entrance.  As the other RJ would say, "Trust me".   ;D  I have been trying for over a year to figure out a way that Zimmerman's getting out of the car makes sense and have come up empty.

Offline MJW

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #109 on: July 20, 2013, 08:18:14 PM »
It seems clear to me why GZ might have decided, on 2/26/12, to change strategies and hunt the suspicious person on foot.

Hunt? Seriously? You seem quite capable of using words precisely,  so I tend to assume the ridiculously inflammatory choice wasn't an accident.

Offline SuzieTampa

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #110 on: July 20, 2013, 08:42:58 PM »
Women often use protection orders as weapons.
When you make insulting generalizations about women, please provide some evidence.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #111 on: July 21, 2013, 06:37:35 AM »
What I find strange is that many of these people's stories have "evolved". George Zimmerman's hasn't.

Continuing with my opinions on the evolution of George Zimmerman's story.

The CVSA interview and test were on the evening of 2/27/12, a few hours after the reenactment.

CVSA, 25:36
Quote
Zimmerman: And, I was leaving my neighborhood when I saw this guy, walking slowly in front of a house, looking towards the house. And I knew he didn't live there, so that made me a little suspicious. And then he kept staring around him, at me, and behind. And it arose my suspicion. And then he was, it was raining. And, he didn't look like he was in a rush to get out the rain.

An abbreviated version of the suspicion list, omitting explicit identification of 1460 RVC, and its sensitive history. I think this is the first explicit statement that GZ knew that TM didn't live in the house that he was in front of when GZ first saw him.

SPD 2/29-1, 4:36-53
Quote
Zimmerman: Two or three weeks prior to that, I'd seen somebody looking in a window of the house that he was in front of.

Serino: Was he white or black?

Zimmerman: Black.

Serino: OK.

Zimmerman: And, the guy that lives there, I know, he's active in the neighborhood watch, and he's Caucasian.

GZ told the story of his 2/2/12 NEN call in more detail, and a little more accurately, than he had previously (45/47 of the logs). He called because he saw a black male showing an interest in 1460 Retreat View Cir., which GZ hadn't mentioned in the earlier interviews. When the police arrived the man had left. The police found all the windows and the garage door open, and the front door unlocked. GZ gave them the owner's phone number, and they got his consent to enter and secure the house.

SPD 2/29-1, 7:41-54
Quote
Zimmerman: So when I saw him, in the same area, in front of the guy's house that I know [unintelligible] had been unsecured, and he was looking into the house, I just thought something doesn't fit right here.

SPD 2/29-1, 8:03-53
Quote
Serino: What did you see Trayvon doing, that caught you as being suspicious?

Zimmerman: He was looking at the house, intently. And then -

Serino: What, the same house?

Zimmerman: The same house that, yeah, that had, I had called about before. [Crosstalk] the window.

Serino: Did he stop, did he - ?

Zimmerman: He stopped.

Serino: In front of the house?

Zimmerman: He stopped in front of the house. And then, I drove, there was a car, like, backing up, so I, I slowed down. And then I drove around him. And he kept looking at me. And then when I passed, oh, it was raining. And then I said, you know what, he's not walking briskly, to get out of the rain. He wasn't, he didn't look like a marathon runner that is active, in like, you know, that trains in the rain. He was just walking slowly [unintelligible] the grass and onto the sidewalk. And I said "Something's off." So, that's why I called non-emergency.

I believe this is the longest of the suspicion lists, and the only one to include both 'looking at' and 'looking into' the houses. It is one of two in the SPD interviews that include TM walking on grass, the other being the reenactment (0:00-1:35).

SPD 2/29-3, 0:51-1:19
Quote
Serino: One more time. Why suspicious?

Zimmerman: It was raining.

Serino: Mmhmm.

Zimmerman: He was looking into the houses, looking behind, looking at me. He wasn't walking quickly to get out of the rain. He didn't look like he was like, trying to head home. He didn't look like a hard core athlete, that wanted to like, train in the rain, or anything. He just looked out of place.

Serino: OK.

Another abbreviated list, and the last suspicion list in the SPD interviews. I think it is the third occurrence of 'looking into' the houses. There is no mention of TM being in front of a house with a sensitive history, or of TM showing an interest in any particular house.

1:32-41
Quote
Serino: On drugs, why?

Zimmerman: Oh, because he just kept looking around, looking behind him, looking, just kept shifting where he was looking.

GZ's most specific description of what he meant when he said, on the NEN call, that TM was 'looking about' (0:17-25). It was the only time that GZ  explained 'looks like . . . he's on drugs'. It was the only time he was asked to.

I wouldn't call this an evolution of the story. It is a clarification of one of the original elements. I thought it was too interesting not to give it a mention, while I was going over the suspicion lists.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #112 on: July 21, 2013, 07:34:07 AM »
When you make insulting generalizations about women, please provide some evidence.

Get over yourself.

I know women do it. I've seen them do it. I've also seen cops and lawyers advise them wink wink to do it.

And saying "women often" isn't an insulting generalization. Drop the hyper PC act. It's boring.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #113 on: July 21, 2013, 08:06:59 AM »
It would have taken 15 seconds for Zimmerman to drive to a position where he could observe anybody exiting either the dog path or RVC on their way to the back entrance.  As the other RJ would say, "Trust me".   ;D  I have been trying for over a year to figure out a way that Zimmerman's getting out of the car makes sense and have come up empty.

Are you suggesting that he drive his car down an unilluminated grass walkway?
That could become manslaughter (or at least a big Bill from the HOA.)

If you have some other path in mind please validate your assertion that it could be reached in 15 seconds


Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #114 on: July 21, 2013, 08:30:44 AM »
TTL makes a 90 degree turn east towards the back entrance a few hundred feet south of where Zimmerman's car was parked.  Stopping at the turn might be a good vantage point.  If he were really adventurous, he might try to maneuver his truck perpendicular to TTL and shine his headlights into the dog path.  Officer Tim Smith was able to look into the dog path from that vantage point with the revolving searchlight on top of his patrol car and saw somebody (Zimmerman? Manalo?) at the other end.  Smith then turned north up RVC where he parked near the cut through.  Zimmerman could have kept going back and forth on Smith's route until the police arrived.   Anything like that had an objectively much better chance of sighting a fleeing suspect in the dark than what he actually did.

Offline SuzieTampa

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #115 on: July 21, 2013, 08:33:05 AM »
Drop the hyper PC act. It's boring.
So ... your opinion and anecdotal evidence supports your generalization about what women often do? I'm on TL because people generally use evidence to support their accusations, instead of making insulting generalizations about one group or another.

If you'd like, I can provide evidence that many men stalk, abuse and kill wives, girlfriends and exes. If you want anecdotal evidence: I helped my sister escape an abusive husband with what she and her friends could pack in their cars. Because she's poor, I hired a lawyer who took out a protective order. But the husband kept coming to her workplace, and she had to quit because her employer wouldn't stop him. We were taking care of our father with Alzheimer's, and I bought a house where we could all live, but the husband would drive by slowly and park outside. We asked our lawyer if we could enforce the protective order, but he said that would only enrage the husband and increase the likelihood of violence. I was hemorrhaging from a fast-growing cancer, and when I went into surgery, I had to tell hospital security to be sure to keep out the husband, who blamed me for taking away his sister.

But feel free to ignore this "boring" topic.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #116 on: July 21, 2013, 09:32:20 AM »
TTL makes a 90 degree turn east towards the back entrance a few hundred feet south of where Zimmerman's car was parked.  Stopping at the turn might be a good vantage point.  If he were really adventurous, he might try to maneuver his truck perpendicular to TTL and shine his headlights into the dog path.  Officer Tim Smith was able to look into the dog path from that vantage point with the revolving searchlight on top of his patrol car and saw somebody (Zimmerman? Manalo?) at the other end.  Smith then turned north up RVC where he parked near the cut through.  Zimmerman could have kept going back and forth on Smith's route until the police arrived.   Anything like that had an objectively much better chance of sighting a fleeing suspect in the dark than what he actually did.


And that view is better than the view afforded from a point of disappearance 40 ft away.?

No way

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #117 on: July 21, 2013, 09:48:54 AM »
Yes it was much, much better.  Educate yourself how dark the dog path was that night.  Besides the trial testimony, try here and here for starters.  And I thought you were claiming before that he didn't know whether Martin went down the dog path or RVC.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 09:53:52 AM by RickyJim »

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #118 on: July 21, 2013, 10:34:22 AM »
So ... your opinion and anecdotal evidence supports your generalization about what women often do? I'm on TL because people generally use evidence to support their accusations, instead of making insulting generalizations about one group or another.

If you'd like, I can provide evidence that many men stalk, abuse and kill wives, girlfriends and exes. If you want anecdotal evidence: I helped my sister escape an abusive husband with what she and her friends could pack in their cars. Because she's poor, I hired a lawyer who took out a protective order. But the husband kept coming to her workplace, and she had to quit because her employer wouldn't stop him. We were taking care of our father with Alzheimer's, and I bought a house where we could all live, but the husband would drive by slowly and park outside. We asked our lawyer if we could enforce the protective order, but he said that would only enrage the husband and increase the likelihood of violence. I was hemorrhaging from a fast-growing cancer, and when I went into surgery, I had to tell hospital security to be sure to keep out the husband, who blamed me for taking away his sister.

But feel free to ignore this "boring" topic.

I don't recall saying there weren't abusive males. Of course there are. Just as there are abusive females.

If you're going to construct straw men--er---straw figures--could you at least make them pretty (or handsome, as you prefer)?
Thank you.



Offline vegas

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #119 on: July 21, 2013, 11:53:46 AM »
Yes it was much, much better.  Educate yourself how dark the dog path was that night.  Besides the trial testimony, try here and here for starters.  And I thought you were claiming before that he didn't know whether Martin went down the dog path or RVC.
Speaking o the dog path, Austin was never called to testify. His mother must have been very unhappy that she did not get another 15 seconds of fame.

 

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