Author Topic: Your Theories  (Read 20620 times)

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Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2013, 01:02:07 PM »
  As far as his gentle, timid nature, the challenge game he was in with Martin pumped up his adrenalin enough to cause a temporary personality change.

Ahhh...I see. Nothing like a little Deus ex Machina!

At least you don't have him being abducted by aliens, reprogrammed, and set back in exactly the same place in time and space.
Cuz that would just be weird.

Offline MJW

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2013, 01:09:26 PM »
I doubt that it occurred to TM that GZ thought he was a burglar. He might have had other reasons to worry about 'snitches'.

I'm pretty sure neither of us can come up with evidence for our beliefs, but I think it's very likely it occured to TM that GZ thought he might be a burglar. I think the jewelry and large screwdriver TM was caught with show that he likely was a burglar. If so, he probably thought like a burglar.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 01:11:53 PM by MJW »

Offline IgnatiusJDonnelly

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2013, 01:11:26 PM »
You didn't shoot him did you?  :o

a dirty look :o :P

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2013, 01:14:57 PM »
a dirty look :o :P

At which point he leapt upon you and began pummeling you, right?


Offline IgnatiusJDonnelly

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2013, 01:17:29 PM »
 :D I escaped to Target

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2013, 01:19:56 PM »
Ahhh...I see. Nothing like a little Deus ex Machina!

At least you don't have him being abducted by aliens, reprogrammed, and set back in exactly the same place in time and space.
Cuz that would just be weird.
You have never noticed any change in a mild mannered friend once they got on a basketball court or soccer field?

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #66 on: July 18, 2013, 01:28:18 PM »
You have never noticed any change in a mild mannered friend once they got on a basketball court or soccer field?

Again: there was trial testimony from people who were in a position to know that Georgie didn't do that.

He couldn't even manage to progress beyond shadow boxing--and certainly if he was given to hulking out, being in a competitive gym atmosphere like that would've done it.

So yes. I've seen mild mannered people get freaky. I've also seen them not get freaky. You can't paint with such a broad brush--especially when there's actual evidence it never happened.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2013, 04:42:34 PM »
What I find strange is that many of these people's stories have "evolved". George Zimmerman's hasn't.

Continuing with my opinions on the evolution of George Zimmerman's story.

GZ's reasons for thinking TM was suspicious, and calling him in as such, were discussed at least five times in his SPD interviews. I'm not sure if any other single subject was discussed so often. They also got a brief mention in the 2/26 written statement (p.1).

In an earlier post, I noted that on the second such occasion, GZ added something new, not mentioned previously to Singleton, nor to the dispatcher on the NEN call. GZ said that TM, when GZ first saw him, was in front of a particular residence, one that had been of concern in an earlier non-emergency call. Prior to this, GZ had never mentioned TM being in front of any particular residence.

SPD 2/26-1, 10:25-52
Quote
Zimmerman: And this time, I was leaving to go to the grocery store. And like I said, I saw him walking in the neighborhood, the same, in front of the same house that I had called the police before, to come to because this guy leaves his doors unlocked and stuff. And he was walking leisurely and looking at the houses, and, so I just pulled my car to the side. And I called the non-emergency line.

The next time GZ mentioned his reasons for a suspicious person call was in the 2/26 written statement (p.1).

Quote
Tonight, I was on my way to the grocery store when I saw a male approximately 5'11" to 6'2" casually walking in the rain looking into homes. I pulled my vehicle over and called SPD non-emergency phone number.

The particular house was again omitted. Looking 'into', as opposed to 'at', the houses/homes is new. It's a small verbal change, but legally huge.

Fla. Stat. 810.14
Quote
(1) A person commits the offense of voyeurism when he or she, with lewd, lascivious, or indecent intent, secretly observes another person when the other person is located in a dwelling, structure, or conveyance and such location provides a reasonable expectation of privacy.
(2) A person who violates this section commits a misdemeanor of the first degree for the first violation . . .

If GZ saw TM looking into a dwelling around 7:00 PM, I think he may have witnessed an actual or attempted misdemeanor. None of the investigators showed any interest in clarifying this.

GZ was released after midnight on 2/27. The reenactment was on the afternoon of the same day.

0:00-0:06
Quote
Smith: . . . pick him up at?

Zimmerman: Right here. Right in front of this house.

Smith: OK. Right in front of 1460?

Zimmerman: Yes, sir.

For the first time GZ identified Frank Taaffe's unit, 1460 Retreat View Cir., as the house TM was front of when GZ first saw him. GZ did make a call concerning this house, earlier in the same month, on 2/2/12. The associated Event Report is on p. 45 of the logs.

GZ made two calls on 2/2/12. On the first he gave the address incorrectly as 1960 Retreat View Cir. He called again to correct the address to 1460 RVC.

0:10-15
Quote
Zimmerman: He was walking like in the grassy area, like, up towards, kinda between these two poles.

In the reenactment, GZ mentioned TM walking in the grass without really saying it was another reason for suspicion. He would suggest that more explicitly in his last SPD interview (SPD, 2/19-1, 8:45). I believe these are the only two occasions that GZ mentioned TM walking on the grass at the time of first sighting. Of course that would be implicit when GZ said, in the Hannity interview, that TM was 'in between houses, cutting in between houses' (4:05).

0:16-1:21
Quote
Like I said, it was rainy. And he wasn't, he was just leisurely looking at the house. And, I, like I said, my wife is, I'd left for the grocery store. And I just felt something was off about him.

Smith: Right.

Zimmerman: So I said, and there's been a history of break-ins in that, and I called previously about this house.

Smith: Right.

Zimmerman: When the police arrived at this house, when I called the first time, the windows were open, and the door was unlocked. And the police came and secured it. So I said, "You know what, it's better to just call." And, I kept driving. I passed him and he was, he kept staring at me, and staring ar-, looking around, to see who else was, I don't know why he was looking, but -

Smith: Did he walk off from there, or did he stop there last night?

Zimmerman: He stopped, and he's, he, he like, looked around. And that's why is, that's what threw me off was, it's raining. I didn't understand why somebody would be, just stopping in the, especially, you know, it wasn't like he was trying to run, to get out of the rain. And I'd never seen him before.

In the reenactment, GZ repeated most of the earlier reasons for suspicion. TM, a stranger to the neighborhood, was walking slowly in the rain, in front of a house that GZ had made an earlier call about. TM looked at the house, stopped in front of the house, and looked around. 

Additions in the reenactment are TM walking in the grass, and a neighboring house having 'a history of break-ins'.

Offline unitron

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2013, 05:27:14 PM »
We've been around this block a few times. Tracy was gesturing at the north gate when he said 'back gate'. I think he always thought TM came in the north gate, and was confused about whether to call the north gate or the southeast gate the 'front' gate.

That said, Tracy never claimed inside knowledge. It seems he just assumed that TM came in one of the gates, and that it was the north gate because that was the area GZ said he saw TM.

Since the east gate was so close to Brandy's, that's probably the one they most always used, so to him the back gate would be the other one, the north gate.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2013, 05:38:04 PM »
Since the east gate was so close to Brandy's, that's probably the one they most always used, so to him the back gate would be the other one, the north gate.

Not only that. BG's unit, in the southeast quadrant of the complex, faced east, in the general direction of the southeast gate. The main gate, in the middle of the north wall, was the 'back gate' in terms of the orientation of the unit.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2013, 07:10:03 PM »
Again: there was trial testimony from people who were in a position to know that Georgie didn't do that.

He couldn't even manage to progress beyond shadow boxing--and certainly if he was given to hulking out, being in a competitive gym atmosphere like that would've done it.

So yes. I've seen mild mannered people get freaky. I've also seen them not get freaky. You can't paint with such a broad brush--especially when there's actual evidence it never happened.
??? There was trial testimony that he didn't do what?   He couldn't get into an emotional state, from the staring and following game he was playing with Martin, that might cause him to do something illogical like get out of the car and head into the darkness?  OK he was looking for an address.   ;D

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2013, 09:27:59 PM »
??? There was trial testimony that he didn't do what?   He couldn't get into an emotional state, from the staring and following game he was playing with Martin, that might cause him to do something illogical like get out of the car and head into the darkness?  OK he was looking for an address.   ;D


Why is the initial impulse to follow TM at a distance illogical? Seems like a perfectly valid decision to observe and report where TM was running.

Offline MJW

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2013, 09:55:37 PM »

Why is the initial impulse to follow TM at a distance illogical? Seems like a perfectly valid decision to observe and report where TM was running.

Oh, it's much more logical to think Zimmerman, in a testosterone-fueled rage, intended to overcome Martin's substantial head start, and chase down him down.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #73 on: July 19, 2013, 05:25:00 AM »
??? There was trial testimony that he didn't do what?   He couldn't get into an emotional state, from the staring and following game he was playing with Martin, that might cause him to do something illogical like get out of the car and head into the darkness?  OK he was looking for an address.   ;D


Did you make a conscious decision to go back to trolling?

Yes, there was testimony wrt his utter softness and non confrontational personality.


Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #74 on: July 19, 2013, 05:25:35 AM »

Why is the initial impulse to follow TM at a distance illogical? Seems like a perfectly valid decision to observe and report where TM was running.
What could he expect to see in the darkness?  He knew the area since he himself says he walked his dog there.  As I pointed out, he could have expected to see more by driving down TTL to where he could have observed both the other end of the dogpath and the back entrance.  His later prevarications like trying to find a street sign or house number at the dog path shows Zimmerman himself couldn't justify his getting out of the car in his own mind.  I also don't believe him when he told Singleton that he couldn't tell if Martin ran down the dog path or went to RVC.  His headlights were on.  I covered my views on the address hunt here.

 

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