Author Topic: Your Theories  (Read 23703 times)

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Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #90 on: July 19, 2013, 12:53:19 PM »
One of the last posts I responded to had Ricky insisting GZ hopped out of his truck and raced after TM to confront him.

That's hardly "accident".
What I said was
Quote
He was afraid to challenge Martin when he was close by but after he thought he ran away Zimmerman's chasing reflex took over and caused him to pop out of the car in a vain effort to follow him - just like my cat jumps on me to get the food bowl in my hand even though she should know by now that I am about to put it down.
By follow I didn't mean "raced after TM to confront him".  Just see where he went.  I am not the prosecution, you know.  :D

For Martin the game's goal was approach and intimidate.  For Zimmerman, after he got to the clubhouse, the goal was, keep the guy in sight.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 12:56:29 PM by RickyJim »

Offline MJW

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #91 on: July 19, 2013, 02:53:51 PM »
Thus my interpretation is that it was a result of emotions caused by their interactions in the game they had been playing in the previous minutes.

I hear nothing in the NEN call to suggest GZ viewed it as a game. Your game-playing hypothesis strikes me as nothing more than a baseless flight of fancy.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #92 on: July 19, 2013, 03:35:33 PM »
I hear nothing in the NEN call to suggest GZ viewed it as a game. Your game-playing hypothesis strikes me as nothing more than a baseless flight of fancy.
Do you agree that the 2/26 NEN call has some features not seen in previous NEN calls?
  • Pointless attempt to have police locate his car instead of meeting at an obvious place.
  • Reporting of suspect approaching his car with threatening gestures.
  • Moving of car during call to trail suspect
  • Getting out of car to trail suspect.
  • Profanity directed at suspect.
  • Expressions of exasperation and frustration.
We also have what I think is a reasonable inference that Martin followed Zimmerman from Taaffe's house to the clubhouse instead of taking a shortcut home.  I find this all indicative that Zimmerman was absorbed with something else besides getting the police to the RATL ASAP to investigate a suspicious person on the premises. 

I have a scientific background and I am always trying to make hypotheses to explain a set of phenomena.  The game one seems to work best in this case but I will change my mind if I see a better one.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #93 on: July 19, 2013, 04:28:33 PM »
Do you agree that the 2/26 NEN call has some features not seen in previous NEN calls?

[snip]

Moving of car during call to trail suspect

That is something GZ claimed in some of the SPD interviews. I don't hear anything in the NEN recording that necessarily indicates the car was moved during the call.


Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #94 on: July 19, 2013, 04:36:09 PM »
That is something GZ claimed in some of the SPD interviews. I don't hear anything in the NEN recording that necessarily indicates the car was moved during the call.
True, but don't you agree that he moved it to the vicinity of the cut through while trailing the suspect and there is no indication he did such a thing previously?

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #95 on: July 19, 2013, 04:57:47 PM »
Did he act exactly the same on any two calls? Were the circumstances the same?

If not this is just very silly

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #96 on: July 19, 2013, 05:01:46 PM »
True, but don't you agree that he moved it to the vicinity of the cut through while trailing the suspect

I don't know.

GZ following TM in his car would be consistent with him wanting to be able to stay updated on TM's location and direct the police to him.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #97 on: July 19, 2013, 05:20:21 PM »
In the previous calls he seemed to think just getting the police to the complex and describing the suspect was enough.  He did not need to meet them at all, with the exception of the call where the suspects were at the back gate and he was going to let the police in there because there was no code. I think he realized that suspects tend to move around and any place the cops start looking was as good as any other.  But 2/26/12 was different.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #98 on: July 19, 2013, 05:26:20 PM »
In the previous calls he seemed to think just getting the police to the complex and describing the suspect was enough.

That hadn't worked. They kept getting away.

Then the stucco guys followed a suspect, and he was caught.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #99 on: July 19, 2013, 05:41:35 PM »
Is that a post TL deleted? If there was one, I don't remember it.  Yes, I agree he was trying to see if he could get a view of Martin again.  But it doesn't make sense from a logical point of view to do that in the way he did it.  Thus my interpretation is that it was a result of emotions caused by their interactions in the game they had been playing in the previous minutes.

probably. I seem to have lost about half of what I posted today. Good thing the trial's over I guess.

Offline MJW

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #100 on: July 19, 2013, 05:47:32 PM »
Do you agree that the 2/26 NEN call has some features not seen in previous NEN calls?

None of those differences suggest to me in any way that Zimmerman was engaged in game playing. I can't see why they suggest that to you.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #101 on: July 20, 2013, 08:30:26 AM »
Then the stucco guys followed a suspect, and he was caught.

HOA President Donald O'Brien testified about the stucco guys, starting about 9:26 on this video. He said that he informed GZ about the arrest (10:52).

I think GZ was referring to the same incident on the last day of his SPD inverviews.

SPD 2/29-1, 7:17-40
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Zimmerman: Then, the next week, not at that building, but at the next building on the ending there, the, the guy I saw, broke in, apparently stole a laptop, from what I understand, and ran off. But one of the maintenance guys saw him, and was able to give the police a direction of where he was going.

Serino: Mmhmm.

Zimmerman: And he was actually arrested.

I put this together with some other statements by GZ.

Non-emergency Call, 1:37
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These a*holes, they always get away.

2/26-1, 3:52-4:08
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Zimmerman:  And, there's been a few times where I've seen a suspicious person in the neighborhood. We call the police, the non-emergency line, and these guys always get away.

2/26-1, 9:44-10:03
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Singleton: OK, let's get back to where you were. OK. You started a neighborhood watch group?

Zimmerman: Yes, ma'am.

Singleton: OK. And?

Zimmerman: I had called before, and the police had come out. But, these guys know the neighborhood very well, and they would cut in between buildings and lose -

Singleton: You're saying "these guys." Who are "these guys"?

Zimmerman: The people coming in, the burglars.

It seems clear to me why GZ might have decided, on 2/26/12, to change strategies and hunt the suspicious person on foot.

The 'cut in between buildings' part, suggests to me that GZ might not have assumed that TM intended to exit through the back gate, just because that was the direction he was last seen heading.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #102 on: July 20, 2013, 09:06:57 AM »
O'Brien said that he thought the stucco incident happened a few months before 2/26/12 so that is not consistent with the sudden change being on the 26th.  The description he gave of how the burglar was caught by following at a distance, mentioned it happened at lunchtime.  So Zimmerman thinking he could do the same with Martin, in the dark, cannot be rationally justified.

Offline turbo6

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #103 on: July 20, 2013, 09:37:12 AM »
I tend to think Martin's behavior when approaching Zimmerman's truck was the catalyst for this whole event. GZ undoubtedly perceived him as suspicious from the start and I think Martin realized pretty quickly he was being "watched". However, Martin's response is what elevated GZ's suspicions to another level.

Based on what was described in the police call, Martin's approaching seemed unsettling, perhaps threatening, maybe confrontational. Although nothing was verbalized, his mannerisms seem to speak of either trying to spook GZ, or perhaps provoke him.

Obviously this startled Zimmerman, he wanted the cops there ASAP. Through the eyes of someone watching over the neighborhood he saw someone cutting into the development through people's yard, instead of the gate. Possibly looking around at houses aimlessly in the rain and then staring at Zimmerman, approaching him and doing what could have very well been a gesture that he had a weapon in his waistband AND then inexplicably running away after.

Lots of people make the obvious assertion that none of this would have happened had Zimmerman just stayed in the car, but then ignore Martin's actions. However, if Martin just continued to walk home casually, no circling, no staring, no gestures I don't think Zimmerman would have left his vehicle or even have found merit in following up with police after.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Your Theories
« Reply #104 on: July 20, 2013, 09:50:45 AM »
he saw someone cutting into the development through people's yard, instead of the gate.

That's not consistent with GZ's statements in his SPD interviews.  In the interviews, GZ always put TM in Taaffe's front yard or on TTL when GZ first saw him. GZ didn't say that he saw TM enter the complex, in the SPD interviews or the Hannity interview.

 

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