Author Topic: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13  (Read 4320 times)

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Offline Cylinder

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2013, 01:40:38 PM »
Zimmerman's secret fight training is the weakest question posed by the state so far. It seems clear to my layperson opinion that the state is trying a burden-shifting scheme here.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2013, 01:42:56 PM »
Zimmerman's secret fight training is the weakest question posed by the state so far. It seems clear to my layperson opinion that the state is trying a burden-shifting scheme here.

What? Sorry--long day already.

Offline Cylinder

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2013, 01:51:03 PM »
What? Sorry--long day already.



They are only poking holes is Zimmerman's account - not committing to a specific alternate narrative that inculpates Zimmerman. It is burden shifting because it relies on jurors misinterpreting questions about Zimmerman's account as affirmative proof of guilt.

Offline Meni

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2013, 03:28:25 PM »
(I couldnt catch this witness, sorry if this comment appesrs irrelevant, I've gathered that the defense used this witness to address what George's physical limitations are)

I don't see any knowledge or any level of training in a form of self defense as being a negative thing for George's defense.
In fact I would think that it would go positively towards the standard of reasonable-
In that George had some knowledge,ability to  use in attempting to respond to Martin 's attack and his 'effort' failed while the threat continued and so he was forced to draw his weapon.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2013, 03:33:37 PM »
(I couldnt catch this witness, sorry if this comment appesrs irrelevant, I've gathered that the defense used this witness to address what George's physical limitations are)

I don't see any knowledge or any level of training in a form of self defense as being a negative thing for George's defense.
In fact I would think that it would go positively towards the standard of reasonable-
In that George had some knowledge,ability to  use in attempting to respond to Martin 's attack and his 'effort' failed while the threat continued and so he was forced to draw his weapon.

Except the reality is GZ is only marginally better than my 70 year old arthritic mother at self defense.

Offline Meni

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2013, 03:41:54 PM »
Except the reality is GZ is only marginally better than my 70 year old arthritic mother at self defense.

No George was probably not ever going to bring anyone down with his blows.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2013, 03:45:10 PM »
No George was probably not ever going to bring anyone down with his blows.

Or--and this is the better part I think--be able to defend himself from an attacker--unless it was my 70 year old mum with the bad hip and creaky joints.


Offline Meni

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2013, 03:47:24 PM »
Or--and this is the better part I think--be able to defend himself from an attacker--unless it was my 70 year old mum with the bad hip and creaky joints.

LOL.
I am also picturing my 4 year old son who just started Tae Kwan Do as maybe being a match for George.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2013, 08:47:36 PM »
In case anyone doesn't know the point of Mantei bringing up whether Zimmerman could perform an armlock,
Quote
Serino: Don’t recall. OK. Is it a full-sized 9 or a small 9?
Zimmerman: Compact.
Serino: Compact? And you were able to overpower him as far as holding his wrist, you gained wrist…we call it wrist control…you gained wrist control on him basically, and you were able to basically liberate both hands…
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. You raised it up. Do you remember hitting him with the pistol?
Zimmerman: No, sir.
Serino: Distance wise…
Zimmerman: I just remember not wanting to hit my own hand, I was holding his, it went past my hand, my body… (sigh
I doubt Pollock would consider what Zimmerman did an armlock.  Mantei did say in Friday's JOA hearing that how Zimmerman claimed to get the shot off was impossible.  Serino seems to imply that Zimmerman had both hands on the pistol when firing but I think when he demonstrated the shot in the reenactment and CVSA videos he only used one hand.

Offline Cylinder

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2013, 09:20:32 PM »
Serino seems to imply that Zimmerman had both hands on the pistol when firing but I think when he demonstrated the shot in the reenactment and CVSA videos he only used one hand.

Any firearm self-defense course teaches this method as part of the close combat drill. You should extend your open weak hand, palm out and fingers spread, in front of your eyes and pull the trigger while sort of pushing the firearm away from the body. The raised hand ensures you don't shoot your own hand, thus deflecting the bullet and leaving yourself injured and in the worst-possible retention position. The open hand helps shield your eyes from powder burn. The drill is invariably called "Dracula" (think of the 60s movies when Dracula is confronted with a cross or the breaking dawn) or "jazz hands."

One of the early arguments from incredulity was that Zimmerman wouldn't have the foresight to think of this and used as a convenient lie to explain how he shot at such close distance. The truth is that it's common to any firearm training except the bare minimal of courses. That would be one of the first tactical scenarios covered by any instructor.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2013, 10:58:05 PM »
In case anyone doesn't know the point of Mantei bringing up whether Zimmerman could perform an armlock,
[snip]

This is a popular meme in the anti-GZ camp. Usually it's 'wristlock', with all sorts of variations based on interpretations or outright distortions of what GZ said. There has been some earlier discussion of this on the forum. One instance was the last straw in a certain commenter getting banned.


Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2013, 11:11:22 PM »
Following up, the meme is usually used to suggest that GZ did have TM in some kind of hold. This would support GZ being the aggressor, or that he was making TM scream, despite being on the bottom. It's also used to suggest that GZ had TM under 'control' (all of him, not just an arm or wrist) and so didn't need to shoot him.

In the face of AP's testimony, Mantei was reduced to suggesting GZ was caught in one more pointless lie, that doesn't contribute to any particular theory of the case.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2013, 11:14:43 PM »
Serino seems to imply that Zimmerman had both hands on the pistol when firing

How does Serino imply that?

I've been over this passage a few times, and no such thing ever crossed my mind.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Adam Pollock, Owner of Kokopelli's Gym, 7/8/13
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2013, 11:33:57 PM »
Oh, I see, 'liberate both hands'. Nothing about the gun at that point.

 

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