Author Topic: Closing Argument Expectations  (Read 3752 times)

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Offline TalkLeft

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Closing Argument Expectations
« on: July 11, 2013, 04:15:56 AM »
What do you expect each side to stress in closing arguments?

O'Mara said on TV Wednesday night that he would argue to the jury to focus on murder 2 and self defense. He wants it to be all or nothing -- either self-defense or murder 2. He is also concerned about a compromise verdict based on sympathy for the Martin family.

He will use his computer animation in closing.

I think the state has to be careful not to misstate the evidence. If it starts throwing out possibilities, I think that's as good as conceding reasonable doubt. It has to argue why its evidence both proves ill will hatred, etc. and disproves self-defense.

Since there can be no conviction on either murder 2 or manslaughter if the jury finds justifiable homicide, I expect it will focus more on  defeating self-defense than proving ill will. The penalties are sky high for manslaughter so it really shouldn't matter to them which one the jury picks. It just doesn't want to come up empty handed.

I wonder how it will address Rachel Jeantel in closing.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Closing Argument Expectations
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2013, 07:38:50 AM »
I am pretty sure it is appropriate to bring this up now.  Here is a list of some of the "contradictions" and other potentially problematic statements by Zimmerman that the prosecution may highlight in its closing arguments.
  • Reason for not returning to car after saying "Okay" to dispatcher was to look for a streetsign/address.
  • Claiming he returned right away to his car when the NEN call ended
  • Having no regrets about getting out of his car (Hannity).
  • Not knowing what he did to annoy Trayvon Martin.
  • Saying Martin called him "homie".
  • Saying originally that when punched at the T he fell down backwards and was mounted by Martin.
  • Claiming to have his head repeatedly banged into the concrete.
  • Claiming that Martin put his hand over Zimmerman's mouth to smother him.
  • Claiming that Martin said "You got me" when shot".  Too Hollywood.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Closing Argument Expectations
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2013, 06:27:22 AM »
8:20 AM on 7/12.

Tweet from Dana Chabaan says defense has brought a piece of concrete into court for use a demonstrative exhibit.

Offline TalkLeft

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Re: Closing Argument Expectations
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2013, 04:05:47 PM »
I am pretty sure it is appropriate to bring this up now.  Here is a list of some of the "contradictions" and other potentially problematic statements by Zimmerman that the prosecution may highlight in its closing arguments.

Several of those statements are more accurate than not. also, no one has perfect recall after a traumatic event. If that's all they have, I don't think it helps their case. If Zimmerman had the burden of proof,  his credibility might be more important. But the burden is on the state and Zimmerman's version has been overall consistent, and more importantly, it's supported in the most critical aspects by other witnesses.

Usually it's the defendant poking holes in the state's case. The closings have both been about poking holes in Zimmerman's defense. It needs way more than that.

Offline RickyJim

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Re: Closing Argument Expectations
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2013, 04:44:02 PM »
I keep on telling Yman on the main TL site and Susan Simpson on her site that you can ignore all of Zimmerman's statements and have plenty of reasonable doubt about his guilt.  They keep replying no, no, no, they jury will regard Zimmerman's credibility as all important in assessing his self defense claim.  Of course talking heads, like Marcia Clark, have said the same thing on TV.  Didn't Guy ask a question today like, "Why would he lie if he weren't guilty?".  I don't attempt to explain all misstatements as due to trauma.  I think his desire to make his self defense case more believable, boost his self image and being in denial about the objective foolishness of some of his actions, also have something to do with it.  I can't understand why some people think that means I think he is guilty.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Closing Argument Expectations
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 05:15:45 PM »
I keep on telling Yman on the main TL site and Susan Simpson on her site that you can ignore all of Zimmerman's statements and have plenty of reasonable doubt about his guilt.  They keep replying no, no, no, they jury will regard Zimmerman's credibility as all important in assessing his self defense claim.  Of course talking heads, like Marcia Clark, have said the same thing on TV.  Didn't Guy ask a question today like, "Why would he lie if he weren't guilty?".  I don't attempt to explain all misstatements as due to trauma.  I think his desire to make his self defense case more believable, boost his self image and being in denial about the objective foolishness of some of his actions, also have something to do with it. I can't understand why some people think that means I think he is guilty.

Have you seen the O'Mara/CNN interview they did yesterday or day before for release today?

He talks about the first time he met George, how he went into the jail cell expecting to meet the 250 pound guy with attitude--the picture the media was portraying. He also said he had a picture of TM as being this cute little 12 year old.

That's why.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Closing Argument Expectations
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 09:50:00 PM »
I can't understand why some people think that means I think he is guilty.

I think it's because, for such people, belief in guilt or innocence is a tribal identification. The shibboleths are tribal markers. Failure to affirm any one of them means you aren't in their tribe, and so must be in the other tribe.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Closing Argument Expectations
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 09:51:56 PM »
I can't understand why some people think that means I think he is guilty.

Have you seen the O'Mara/CNN interview they did yesterday or day before for release today?

He talks about the first time he met George, how he went into the jail cell expecting to meet the 250 pound guy with attitude--the picture the media was portraying. He also said he had a picture of TM as being this cute little 12 year old.

That's why.

I don't understand what you are getting at.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Closing Argument Expectations
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2013, 06:30:56 AM »
Have you seen the O'Mara/CNN interview they did yesterday or day before for release today?

He talks about the first time he met George, how he went into the jail cell expecting to meet the 250 pound guy with attitude--the picture the media was portraying. He also said he had a picture of TM as being this cute little 12 year old.

That's why.


I don't understand what you are getting at.

I was talking to Ricky. I highlighted the portion of his comment I was replying to. People want GZ to be guilty because they haven't gotten past the image of GZ as a thug or the image of TM as the cute little 12 year old, so it doesn't matter what sort of arguments get presented to them.

As evidence of this--O'Mara's own statements of what he believed about the case before he met George.

Some people aren't as smart as Mark O'Mara.

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Closing Argument Expectations
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2013, 12:08:30 PM »
I was talking to Ricky. I highlighted the portion of his comment I was replying to. People want GZ to be guilty because . . .

You mean you were answering a different question than the one RJ asked?

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Closing Argument Expectations
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2013, 12:11:25 PM »
You mean you were answering a different question than the one RJ asked?

This is the last time I'm responding to you on this thread.

The answer to your question is "no".

Sorry it's difficult for you to grasp. I apologize, sirrrrrrrrr.



 

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