Author Topic: Verdict Reactions  (Read 22850 times)

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Offline SuzieTampa

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #105 on: July 20, 2013, 09:02:32 PM »
Article questioning why MSNBC lets Sharpton organize protests and then report on those protests, especially when he doesn't mention that he organized them. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-al-sharpton-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-20130720,0,4056684.story

Offline jeanmarc8

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #106 on: July 21, 2013, 01:59:14 PM »
IANAL and wanted to thank Jeralynn for her commentary: http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/7/16/183017/109/crimenews/-Zimmerman-The-State-s-Failure-to-Humanize-Trayvon-Martin

I wanted to comment on the number of defense witnesses who stepped forward to claim that the voice on the telephone belonged to GZ.  As implied by the FBI speech identification expert, there was not enough data to make such a decision beyond a personal opinion that could not be validated or refuted.  Therefore, some of those people standing up for GZ were likely influenced by their knowledge of him and their beliefs that he would not cause somebody to cry out like that. Each of them was willing to stand up in court to make that claim at some personal risk. They looked like his friends, coworkers and neighbors, and most likely influenced the jury.  This was in contrast to the prosecution witnesses.

In her commentary concerning the state’s failure to humanize TM, Jeralynn noted “What many may not realize is that this was a strategic decision the state made, not an unintentional omission.”   There is an alternative consideration.  The narrative and imaging formatted by Mr. Crump et al, along with information from the unrevealed past several years before TM died, and family dynamics may not have allowed any options.  Testimony by his birth-mother, his step-mother and his father’s current girl friend may have created “poor optics”. Court appearances by his half-brothers, step-brothers and cousins may have required an interesting chart on his family tree. His academic/ behavioral problems at school may have precluded any teacher inputs.  A pastor would likely be constrained if TM’s shadow had not graced the threshold of a church for that period. The football experience may have been so remote that any coaching references were expired.  As suggested by the Twitter feeds, W8/RJ may have been the most scholarly and sophisticated person among his “close friends”, and having only 2 weeks of recent interaction may have precluded other embarrassing questions.  Thus, the narrative and imaging carefully crafted by Mr. Crump et al may have cracked if more people were allowed to speak up for TM.  Some have complained that TM was not allowed to testify in the trial since he was dead. However, his family and friends had that opportunity, and yet could not/would not testify on his behalf.  Protests are being held with the narrative’s touchstones of “Stand Your Ground”, “Protect the Black Child”. “Hoodies” and “Skittles and Iced tea”. These topics seem to have had little traction in the actual court case as presented to the jury.

I sense the case rested on the knife edge of justice. The members of the jury were selected to represent the citizens of the State of Florida to determine if guilt was proven beyond reasonable doubt.   Maybe after 16 hours of deliberations, despite the errors of omission and commission by GZ, despite the evidence allowed and not allowed by Judge Nelson, despite all the emotional pleas from the prosecution, that jury just decided that GZ was still a guy who wore a white hat.

Again, IANAL.

Offline Lousy1

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #107 on: July 21, 2013, 09:15:13 PM »
Quite a few posters here came to the same conclusion. I expect that the testimony from some associates/ teachers may be even more damaging to the prosecution than you postulate.

Come on. Not even one? Not even his father on direct?

BDLR and Corey knew.



Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #108 on: July 22, 2013, 07:08:01 AM »
The optics being poor (or however you put it) are the reason it was a choice the prosecution made--like Jeralyn said.

Well, that and how wide it would fling open the door to include every single tidbit TM had ever done. It would've turned the trial into a Conservative Treehouse delight--but it wouldn't have accomplished anything at all.


Offline Lousy1

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #109 on: July 22, 2013, 11:32:34 AM »

Well, that and how wide it would fling open the door to include every single tidbit TM had ever done. It would've turned the trial into a Conservative Treehouse delight--but it wouldn't have accomplished anything at all.

Since GZ was declared innocent I guess you are saying the verdict would have been the same.

If your  implying that exposing any sordid or illegal practices of TM  ( if any :)) would not give the defense valuable rope then I disagree.  Seems dependent  on  the specifics ot that exposure and how it can be integrated into a defense narrative.

For instance , if TM had a history of ethnic animosity towards  Hispanics would that frame the assault differently?  I don't presume this is the case but a skillful attorney can draw sufficient information to allow  inferences once the pigeon is on the stand.

 Its not as if BDLR was withholding  potential character witness so as not to taint a stellar core of unshakeable prosecution witnesses.




Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #110 on: July 22, 2013, 01:44:26 PM »
Since GZ was declared innocent I guess you are saying the verdict would have been the same.

If your  implying that exposing any sordid or illegal practices of TM  ( if any :)) would not give the defense valuable rope then I disagree.  Seems dependent  on  the specifics ot that exposure and how it can be integrated into a defense narrative.

For instance , if TM had a history of ethnic animosity towards  Hispanics would that frame the assault differently?  I don't presume this is the case but a skillful attorney can draw sufficient information to allow  inferences once the pigeon is on the stand.

 Its not as if BDLR was withholding  potential character witness so as not to taint a stellar core of unshakeable prosecution witnesses.

Not declared innocent.  ;)

LOL. If you're innocent until proven guilty, and you aren't proven guilty, aren't you proven innocent? I love all the news people who're going on and on about how not guilty doesn't mean innocent.

I think it does. But I'm simple I suppose.

Anyway, what I meant was that O'Mara dragging out every single tidbit of TM's past, and exposing Uncle Fruit and whatever else was in the social media stuff that's available at the GZ legal case site would've just inflamed those who are easily inflamed.

As it is, they got the not guilty verdict by threatening to go nuclear and managing to look like they're on the high road. Or actually taking the high road, I'm not sure which.


Offline Lousy1

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #111 on: July 22, 2013, 02:39:06 PM »
I agree.

I think the threat still applies in the case of a civil suit and possibly a Fed civil rights beef

Offline unitron

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #112 on: July 22, 2013, 04:28:31 PM »
Not declared innocent.  ;)

LOL. If you're innocent until proven guilty, and you aren't proven guilty, aren't you proven innocent? I love all the news people who're going on and on about how not guilty doesn't mean innocent.

I think it does. But I'm simple I suppose.

Anyway, what I meant was that O'Mara dragging out every single tidbit of TM's past, and exposing Uncle Fruit and whatever else was in the social media stuff that's available at the GZ legal case site would've just inflamed those who are easily inflamed.

As it is, they got the not guilty verdict by threatening to go nuclear and managing to look like they're on the high road. Or actually taking the high road, I'm not sure which.

But you are not innocent until proven guilty, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

So a not guilty verdict leaves that presumption in place, but it's not quite the same as proof of innocence.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #113 on: July 22, 2013, 04:50:24 PM »
But you are not innocent until proven guilty, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

So a not guilty verdict leaves that presumption in place, but it's not quite the same as proof of innocence.

LOL. That's fine.

Offline vegas

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #114 on: July 22, 2013, 09:34:33 PM »
The optics being poor (or however you put it) are the reason it was a choice the prosecution made--like Jeralyn said.

Well, that and how wide it would fling open the door to include every single tidbit TM had ever done. It would've turned the trial into a Conservative Treehouse delight--but it wouldn't have accomplished anything at all.
The pro folk posted over and over for a year that O'Mara West would trash Martin. Isn't everyone in America who goes to trial found guilty or not guilty  not innocent or not innocent? Although not in trial but charged were called  INNOCENT was the Duke lacrosse guys by the State of North Carolina,  Attorney General.     
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 09:43:36 PM by vegas »

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #115 on: July 22, 2013, 11:32:01 PM »
The pro folk posted over and over for a year that O'Mara West would trash Martin.

Point?

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #116 on: July 24, 2013, 07:37:21 AM »
Associated Press, 7/24/13

Quote
Tracy Martin will give opening remarks Wednesday [7/24] at the inaugural hearing of the Congressional Caucus on Black Men and Boys. D.C. Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton and Illinois Congressman Danny Davis are the co-chairs of the newly formed caucus. Both are Democrats.

Offline DebFrmHell

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #117 on: July 24, 2013, 11:18:22 AM »
Associated Press, 7/24/13

Got to admit, I am a little floored by this.  Can't go in to it w/o getting into HUGE trouble with Jeralyn.

Offline annoyedbeyond

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #118 on: July 24, 2013, 02:20:26 PM »
Got to admit, I am a little floored by this.  Can't go in to it w/o getting into HUGE trouble with Jeralyn.

I feel your pain, Deb.

 ;)

Offline nomatter_nevermind

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Re: Verdict Reactions
« Reply #119 on: July 24, 2013, 05:11:54 PM »

 

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