TalkLeft Discussion Forums

State v. George Zimmerman (Pre-Trial) => Zimmerman Family and Friends => Topic started by: TalkLeft on September 01, 2012, 09:05:57 PM

Title: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: TalkLeft on September 01, 2012, 09:05:57 PM
I think it's a really bad idea for the Ostermans to be releasing a book and going on Dr. Phil. I explain why here (http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/9/1/221432/1505).

(http://talkleft.com/zimm/ostergag.jpg)
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 02, 2012, 03:33:45 AM
Some time ago I did a round-up (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2037.msg101307.html#msg101307) of the discrepancies between Zimmerman's SPD statements, and the FDLE summary of Osterman's statement to them.
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: TalkLeft on September 02, 2012, 12:33:27 PM
Some time ago I did a round-up (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2037.msg101307.html#msg101307) of the discrepancies between Zimmerman's SPD statements, and the FDLE summary of Osterman's statement to them.

It's not the statements of Osterman to the FDLE that are the issue. The FDLE report  is a summary of his interview and not admissible (it would only come up if Osterman testified differently at trial and they called the agent who interviewed Osterman to impeach him, not Zimmerman, with the prior inconsistent statement. 

But what Osterman writes in his book and says publicly about what George told him could potentially be used to impeach George at trial if George testifies differently from what  Osterman says in the book or on TV that he told him.   All the state has to do is ask George on cross-examination if he ever said X. If George denies saying X, they call Osterman to the stand and ask if George ever told him X. If Osterman says yes, it's impeachment evidence.

So the statements that could hurt Zimmerman are those Osterman directly attributes to Zimmerman in his book or in media interviews.  I think those would be  the statements to compare with Zimmerman's statements to police.

Treehouse has the supposed excerpt of the chapter 1  (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/09/01/chapter-one-the-osterman-book-and-the-dangers-of-misplaced-advocacy/)and will be publishing a new one each day.
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: DebFrmHell on September 03, 2012, 11:04:30 PM
I read the first part of the excerpt.   That was enough for me. 

Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: TalkLeft on September 08, 2012, 01:06:00 AM
Here is Dr. Phil's press release  (http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/exclusive-interview-with-close-friends-george-zimmerman-most-hated-man-america-kick-1698866.htm)on the show.

Alicia Martin,  TM's stepmother, will also be on.

On Sept 14, the TM's mother, father and brother will appear.

From the previews, the Ostermans will get sandbagged. No surprise there.
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: turbo6 on September 08, 2012, 07:15:16 AM
From the previews, the Ostermans will get sandbagged. No surprise there.

I would be surprised if the crowd doesn't get all Jerry Springer with them. They probably aren't going to get the warmest reception for TV appearances.

Dr. Phil seems to grill them on GZ's self defense claim, solely if the criteria is based only upon imminent death. Apparently he hasn't looked over FL law yet.
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: RickyJim on September 08, 2012, 08:21:34 AM
I would be surprised if the crowd doesn't get all Jerry Springer with them. They probably aren't going to get the warmest reception for TV appearances.

Dr. Phil seems to grill them on GZ's self defense claim, solely if the criteria is based only upon imminent death. Apparently he hasn't looked over FL law yet.

In the second clip, Phil makes such a silly point that it is beneath me discussing it.  As to the first clip: Fear of imminent death is the cornerstone of the relevant portions of Fl 776, and applies even if Zimmerman was the original provoker, so I think Zimmerman's defense should be based on that.  The best evidence of it is the screams, not Zimmerman's injuries.  As long it is reasonable that it is Zimmerman screaming, there is reasonable doubt as to Zimmerman's guilt.
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: Lousy1 on September 08, 2012, 09:08:22 AM
The best evidence of it is the screams, not Zimmerman's injuries. 

I wasn't aware that the screams , injuries, witness statements and debris field et al  needed to be weighed separately rather than in totality.
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: RickyJim on September 08, 2012, 06:53:54 PM
I wasn't aware that the screams , injuries, witness statements and debris field et al  needed to be weighed separately rather than in totality.

Good lawyers emphasize their pounds rather than their ounces.   ;)
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: DarkSkiesRbest on September 08, 2012, 10:45:39 PM
I agree that the book and interview cannot help GZ in any way and should never have been done. The duplicity of Dr. Phil suggesting carrying everywhere is a bad idea when his armed personal bodyguard was feet away made me sick. If only someone could have asked him right then "If I were to punch you, knock you down, straddle you and start slamming your head do you think your bodyguard might shoot me?"
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: Lousy1 on September 09, 2012, 05:18:57 AM
Good lawyers emphasize their pounds rather than their ounces.   ;)


Good lawyers paint pictures using every color on the palette. 

For some reason you seem to think that any photo that misses Zimmerman's injuries somehow negates  evidence that chronicle the damage that was inflicted on him. The rational seems a bit bizarre.
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: turbo6 on September 09, 2012, 09:46:34 AM
In the second clip, Phil makes such a silly point that it is beneath me discussing it.  As to the first clip: Fear of imminent death is the cornerstone of the relevant portions of Fl 776, and applies even if Zimmerman was the original provoker, so I think Zimmerman's defense should be based on that.  The best evidence of it is the screams, not Zimmerman's injuries.  As long it is reasonable that it is Zimmerman screaming, there is reasonable doubt as to Zimmerman's guilt.

Fear of death is the main point, but great bodily harm is important as well. Dr. Phil seems to only justify self defense as a life or death thing but many one sided altercations like this can leave the victim with a permanent life long impediment.

Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: TalkLeft on September 11, 2012, 02:24:20 PM
Defense Team Tweet (https://twitter.com/GZlegalCase/statuses/245547820696891393)

Quote
Osterman's book and TV spot, although well-intentioned, are ill-timed and done without input and NOT approved by the defense.
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 11, 2012, 03:25:02 PM
I watched the interview.

I wish Dr. Phil had played the recording of the police call, to show that Osterman misrepresented what was said by both Zimmerman and the dispatcher.

Dr. Phil's timeline had Martin heading out to the store at 6:40, ten minutes after he left it.

Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: Redbrow on September 11, 2012, 03:34:39 PM
I watched the interview.

I wish Dr. Phil had played the recording of the police call, to show that Osterman misrepresented what was said by both Zimmerman and the dispatcher.

Dr. Phil's timeline had Martin heading out to the store at 6:40, ten minutes after he left it.
That whole timeline was a farce. What a train wreck. With friends like Osterman...
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 15, 2012, 06:01:13 PM
I think this interview probably did more good than harm for Zimmerman's cause. It presented key elements of his side of the story, to an audience that so far probably hasn't had much exposure to it.

The Ostermans have a self-interested motive in selling their book, but I appreciate their courage in facing a hostile interviewer and audience. I don't think anyone from the Martin side has done that yet.
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: RickyJim on September 20, 2012, 11:14:34 AM
The Osterman book is now part of the prosecution case according to this OS article (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-20/news/os-george-zimmerman-school-records-fight-20120920_1_trayvon-martin-mark-o-mara-george-zimmerman-case).
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 20, 2012, 11:32:45 AM
The Osterman book is now part of the prosecution case according to this OS article (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-20/news/os-george-zimmerman-school-records-fight-20120920_1_trayvon-martin-mark-o-mara-george-zimmerman-case).

Of course. I think they will call Osterman, and if his testimony deviates from the book they can ask the judge to declare him hostile and impeach him with it.

I don't think the book will be admissible for any other purpose.
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: RickyJim on September 20, 2012, 12:33:40 PM
Of course. I think they will call Osterman, and if his testimony deviates from the book they can ask the judge to declare him hostile and impeach him with it.

I don't think the book will be admissible for any other purpose.

The CTH had this Zimmerman quote from the book
Quote
Somehow, I broke his grip on the gun and grabbed it between where the site and hammer is. I got it in my hand, raised it toward the guy’s chest and pulled the trigger.

Since this differs from the all the GZ accounts and DNA recovered from the gun, one would think the prosecution would bring it up in questioning Osterman.  Does anybody have the book and can verify the quote is really there?
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: annoyedbeyond on September 20, 2012, 04:18:12 PM
The Osterman book is now part of the prosecution case according to this OS article (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-20/news/os-george-zimmerman-school-records-fight-20120920_1_trayvon-martin-mark-o-mara-george-zimmerman-case).

Is there a thread about the other stuff mentioned in that article, about how the state now wants all of O'Mara's subpoenas to be sealed? Is that crap even legal? ...I suppose legal is whatever the judge says it is in something like that, but it bothers me. 
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: TalkLeft on September 20, 2012, 07:28:32 PM
Is there a thread about the other stuff mentioned in that article, about how the state now wants all of O'Mara's subpoenas to be sealed? Is that crap even legal? ...I suppose legal is whatever the judge says it is in something like that, but it bothers me. 

Not that I know of, feel free to start one under Court Matters (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/board,28.0.html).
Title: Re: The Osterman Book and Dr. Phil
Post by: turbo6 on September 20, 2012, 08:36:46 PM
Its really not good this guy's book is making claims like this in a pending case like this.

Whether the case is if he misunderstood Zimmerman, Zimmerman exaggerated that part to him, or he flat out made that part up to sell books...its a bold claim to make at this point in the game.

I suppose the important thing here is Zimmerman himself never said that. I doubt Zimmerman would have been in a position to even get enough leverage to get the gun away from Trayvon if he did manage a firm grip on it.

Quite honestly, in a self defense situation it shouldn't really have to come down to getting beaten into a near vegetative state, or having to wrestle a weapon away from someone....