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George Zimmerman Trial Coverage => Evidence => Topic started by: MJW on June 23, 2013, 03:05:41 PM

Title: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: MJW on June 23, 2013, 03:05:41 PM
The State's 18th Supplemental Discovery (http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0613/states_18.pdf) is now posted on GZLegaCase.com.

It comprises:  Emails from defendant; two legal textbooks.

I suspect the textbooks and the college professor may be to show GZ was aware of the provisions of self-defense law, so may have tailored his interview answers in order to claim self defense.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: RickyJim on June 23, 2013, 03:48:55 PM
Haven't GZ's grades been made public?  If he flunked the class, this evidence might favor the defense.   :D
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: MJW on June 23, 2013, 03:50:13 PM
For what it's worth, it looks like Criminal Justice in Action - 4th Edition was published (http://www.cengage.com/asiahed/productlist.do?disciplinenumber=3025&courseid=CJ01&sortBy=copyrightYear&sortByShow=all&codeFlag=true) in 2008, and Criminal Law and Procedure for Paralegal : A Systems Approach - 3rd Edition was published (http://www.textbooks.com/Criminal-Law-and-Procedure-for-Paralegal-Systems-Approach-3rd-Edition/9781401865641/James-W-H-McCord-and-Sandra-L-McCord.php) in 2005. Criminal Justice in Action is now in its 7th edition; Criminal Law and Procedure seems to be in its 4th edition.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: MJW on June 23, 2013, 04:34:44 PM
An `A' in Criminal Litigation but a `D' in Criminal Justice.  Which would cover self-defense defense?

I believe the deposed professor, Gordon Pleasants, didn't teach GZ's Criminal Litigation class. I have no idea if the professor who did was also listed as a state witness.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: jjr495 on June 23, 2013, 05:28:43 PM
Could anyone help me with the indexing scheme of the discovery? Only C and K.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: TalkLeft on June 23, 2013, 05:29:18 PM
Haven't GZ's grades been made public?  If he flunked the class, this evidence might favor the defense.   :D

No they haven't. The state released them by mistake and then recalled them.  (I have a copy but since they are not public won't disclose what's in them.)
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: TalkLeft on June 23, 2013, 05:34:55 PM
Comment with disparaging gratuitous insult to prosecutor deleted.  There is no need for that.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: TalkLeft on June 23, 2013, 05:37:15 PM
We are in the trial phase now. I'm going to move this to the evidence topic of the trial forums.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: cboldt on June 23, 2013, 05:48:42 PM
We are in the trial phase now. I'm going to move this to the evidence topic of the trial forums.

Hopefully there won't be much in the way of inadmissible, but discoverable, evidence; coming into view while we are in the trial phase.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: RickyJim on June 23, 2013, 05:53:10 PM
The State's 18th Supplemental Discovery (http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0613/states_18.pdf) is now posted on GZLegaCase.com.

It comprises:  Emails from defendant; two legal textbooks.

I suspect the textbooks and the college professor may be to show GZ was aware of the provisions of self-defense law, so may have tailored his interview answers in order to claim self defense.
I am trying to come up with something he said during an interview that would prove he had knowledge of the details of Fl 776.  So far I haven't thought of anything.  Can anybody help?  Thanks.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 23, 2013, 07:33:46 PM
I am trying to come up with something he said during an interview that would prove he had knowledge of the details of Fl 776.

IMO that would be a waste of time.

You can take that for what it's worth. I've spent some time with those interviews.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 23, 2013, 08:06:56 PM
I believe the deposed professor, Gordon Pleasants, didn't teach GZ's Criminal Litigation class.

It seems he his presently teaching two courses, a general intro, and a course on domestic violence and stalking. He may have been teaching another course when Zimmerman had him.

What's your basis for thinking he didn't teach the litigation class?
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: Cylinder on June 23, 2013, 08:19:04 PM
Pure Speculation 1: The professor may testify and/or authenticate emailed homework that shows Zimmerman had knowledge of SYG statute, then contrast this with Hannity interview where Zimmerman asserted he had never heard that phrase before incident. The purpose would be to show that Zimmerman made a conscious and informed decision to tailor his claims to fit statute, then lie about knowledge of statute.

Pure Speculation 2: Something in his homework is similar to his assertions and the state will claim his fabricated story was prompted by those examples.

Pure speculation 3: Somewhere in his coursework, Zimmerman used a "he reached for the gun" or "he was smothering me" example.

Less Dramatic Speculation: The state will use his coursework to rebut or explain away Zimmerman's spontaneous statements, asserting that they were calculated to achieve a desired effect that he has previously studied.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 23, 2013, 08:21:16 PM
If he flunked the class, this evidence might favor the defense.   :D

It might help the prosecution if he flunked a class covering citizen arrests, or false imprisonment (Fla. Stat. 787.02). (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0787/Sections/0787.02.html)
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: Cylinder on June 23, 2013, 08:21:40 PM

Perhaps Serino's comment that he sounded "scripted?"

I don't think we'll be hearing from Det. Serino in the state's case-in-chief. That bridge, for whatever reason, has suffered catastrophic failure from fire.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: Cylinder on June 23, 2013, 08:22:29 PM
It might help the prosecution if he flunked a class covering citizen arrests, or false imprisonment (Fla. Stat. 787.02). (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0787/Sections/0787.02.html)

...or gave an answer that supports the state's theory of guilt.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 23, 2013, 09:05:45 PM
Rene Stutzman tweet, about 2 hours ago.
Quote
State indicates it plans to use #GeorgeZimmerman's homework from a criminal law class as part of its murder case against him.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: TalkLeft on June 23, 2013, 09:34:40 PM
I am trying to come up with something he said during an interview that would prove he had knowledge of the details of Fl 776.  So far I haven't thought of anything.  Can anybody help?  Thanks.

No and this is uncalled for. You are not the prosecutor and should not use this site to build a case against a defendant. These forums aren't about manufacturing speculative theories of guilt. Go do that somewhere else.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: TalkLeft on June 23, 2013, 09:49:58 PM
George's grades were improperly released to the public. The state apologized for the error. Please do not recite what some other publication says they were. If the state moves to admit them, they can be discussed then. Just because the state provides something in discovery doesn't make it admissible.

Each side has the other's side school records. The same way we have not discussed what may be in Trayvon's records we should not discuss what is in GZ's records. Whether he passed or failed a class is not relevant to any issue in the case.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: DebFrmHell on June 23, 2013, 11:30:15 PM
Out of curiosity, if The State brings up the issues of grades and homework, etc. first for Zimmerman can the Defense counter with what is known about Martin's grades and homework?
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: MJW on June 24, 2013, 12:06:05 AM
Out of curiosity, if The State brings up the issues of grades and homework, etc. first for Zimmerman can the Defense counter with what is known about Martin's grades and homework?

I don't think so. Neither is admissible without showing the relevance, and what might make GZ's grades and homework relevant doesn't make TM's grades and homework relevant. For instance GZ's homework might be evidence he was aware of the requirements to claim self defense, which might make it relevant to showing it influenced what he told the police. That has nothing to do with the relevance of TM's homework.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: unitron on June 24, 2013, 03:03:52 AM
No and this is uncalled for. You are not the prosecutor and should not use this site to build a case against a defendant. These forums aren't about manufacturing speculative theories of guilt. Go do that somewhere else.

I honestly do not see any substantial difference between the speculations of RickyJim and those of MJW and Cylinder regarding what in the world the state thinks they can get out of a couple of textbooks, some emails, and one of Zimmerman's old teachers.

Was it using the number "776" instead of the generic term "self defense"?
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 02:05:11 PM
No and this is uncalled for. You are not the prosecutor and should not use this site to build a case against a defendant. These forums aren't about manufacturing speculative theories of guilt. Go do that somewhere else.
That is absurd Jeralyn.  I was just trying to figure out where the state might be going with such evidence.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: TalkLeft on June 25, 2013, 06:17:01 PM
You asked for help finding documents that would aid their case. "I am trying to come up with something he said during an interview that would prove he had knowledge of the details of Fl 776.  So far I haven't thought of anything.  Can anybody help?"  I don't want to help such a project. I don't want this site to be used to  build the state's case. We are here to analyze it. I realize you don't see the difference but I do. Sorry if you are offended.
Title: Re: State's 18th Supplemental Discovery
Post by: RickyJim on June 25, 2013, 06:29:38 PM
Maybe you are right that the prosecution is watching our sandbox here for ideas.  Come to think of it, some of the things Mantei said might indicate he was familiar with the Evidence Discussion thread on Prior NEN Calls.   ;D