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State v. George Zimmerman (Pre-Trial) => Zimmerman: Police Investigation => Topic started by: DebFrmHell on July 03, 2012, 10:21:07 PM

Title: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: DebFrmHell on July 03, 2012, 10:21:07 PM
George Zimmerman's visit the day after is causing me some confusion.  It would appear that he went there primarily because of his nasal distress.  His list of medications is brief including what is basically two vitamins including an iodine tablet, a sleep aid and something for acid reflux.  He only saw a PA?

I remember reading that his physician had recommended a psychiatrist for PTSD and from the medications he mentioned in jail calls he had his Adderal and one other medication, mirtazapine for an antidepressant and sleep aid .   I thought he had to have seen a physician or a shrink to get someone to get those prescriptions.   A PA couldn't issue those meds.  IMO.

Is this just one of possibly two medical reports?

Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: DebFrmHell on July 04, 2012, 10:33:57 AM
We can assume that the other prescriptions were already valid at the time of the shooting.  It's not in the public record who issued those drug scripts to George.  GZ seems to have seen a Physician's Assistant (authorized to write prescriptions) the day after the killing, and told the PA that the EMTs told him his nose was broken.  The PA did not "diagnose" him with a broken nose, she re-reported what he told her.   Broken noses are difficult to diagnose and there isn't much that can be done about them anyway, so often the risk of an X-ray of the head/brain is weighed against the possible good it might do and not recommended, I understand.  She did seem to refer him to a specialist if he wanted to know more, but he didn't follow up on that AFAIK. 

From jail records we know he is still taking the addreall and the other drug, and he's said he has ADD or ADHD, I'm not sure which.  IANAD.   It's possible that attention deficit disorder could be an issue at trial as a means to excuse some memory problems GZ may have regarding what the prosecution calls inconsistencies and contradictions in his testimony.  That's not been stated explicitly by the defense but GZ did tell the police during an interview that he "has a bad memory" and may have related this observation to to his ADD.  I'm not sure exactly where in the transcripts this can be found but I recall it was to Serino, not Singleton. 

A known side effect of addreall is violent behavior, according to wikipedia.  In my opinion however, pills don't shoot people.  People shoot people. I hope that these substance issues don't become an issue at trial since they don't "prove" much IMO.

Willis that is a very fair assessment from you. 

It has been my experience, however, that when going to one of those walk-in clinics that you tell them what medications you are currently prescribed. ((There are hundreds of those "Doc-in-the-Boxes" in Florida.  I favored one of them when I lived there because it was convenient and less time consuming that going to an ER.))  All prescriptions are noted on your chart, just like his allergy to penicillin.  THe PAS even liste his Vitamins.  The Adderal should certainly be there even if the Mirtazapine isn't.   That Mirtazapine works very much like the Trazodone that I take, as I read its description.  Unless I am getting my prescription through a psychiatrist, the pharmacy won't fill it.  A Gen Practitioner  or an Internal Medicine doctor wouldn't be acceptable to them.

BBM:

Millions of people take Adderal.  We would have rioting in the streets if all were violent.    You can bet your bottom dollar that if it is of any benefit to either side, that will come out in court.  I don't think MOM would have a qualm about it though I think the Prosecutor would be hesitant.
Title: ADHD
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 04, 2012, 11:43:23 AM

That's not been stated explicitly by the defense but GZ did tell the police during an interview that he "has a bad memory" and may have related this observation to to his ADD.

2/29-1, 24:44-25:33

Zimmerman mentioned ADHD in response to Serino asking if there was documentation of his poor memory.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: Aussie54 on July 04, 2012, 03:11:50 PM
We can assume that the other prescriptions were already valid at the time of the shooting.  It's not in the public record who issued those drug scripts to George.  GZ seems to have seen a Physician's Assistant (authorized to write prescriptions) the day after the killing, and told the PA that the EMTs told him his nose was broken.  The PA did not "diagnose" him with a broken nose, she re-reported what he told her.   Broken noses are difficult to diagnose and there isn't much that can be done about them anyway, so often the risk of an X-ray of the head/brain is weighed against the possible good it might do and not recommended, I understand.  She did seem to refer him to a specialist if he wanted to know more, but he didn't follow up on that AFAIK. 

From jail records we know he is still taking the addreall and the other drug, and he's said he has ADD or ADHD, I'm not sure which.  IANAD.   It's possible that attention deficit disorder could be an issue at trial as a means to excuse some memory problems GZ may have regarding what the prosecution calls inconsistencies and contradictions in his testimony.  That's not been stated explicitly by the defense but GZ did tell the police during an interview that he "has a bad memory" and may have related this observation to to his ADD.  I'm not sure exactly where in the transcripts this can be found but I recall it was to Serino, not Singleton. 

A known side effect of addreall is violent behavior, according to wikipedia.  In my opinion however, pills don't shoot people.  People shoot people. I hope that these substance issues don't become an issue at trial since they don't "prove" much IMO.

This is a first time post for me, but it really irks me when people relay information about Add**all that is incorrect when it is being used properly.

Add**all is pure amphetamine. It is legally prescribed to people with ADHD. It works by slowing down the brain activity, which is a feature of ADHD. However, since this is pure amphetamine it comes with the same risks associated with amphetamine when the person does not in fact have ADHD.

Whilst it might be true that Add**all can create violence in some, it is not true for the majority of the patients that take that drug for legal reasons!!  This is a case where Wikpedia has incorrect information or at least the information is edited!!
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: TalkLeft on July 04, 2012, 04:39:39 PM
According to GZ's statement to Serino, he was diagnosed with ADD as a child. Add**all does not cause those effects in children or others with ADD. It may cause them in some people who take it who do not have ADD.  Add**all causes the opposite effect in those with ADD, it slows them down, allows them to concentrate and focus. If it weren't safe, it would not be prescribed to children as young as 6.

In other words, if GZ has ADD, his use of Add**all would have made him less prone to violent behavior and more in control.

Also please do not spell out Add**all or amphet**mines in your comments. They are censored words because they attract non-human spambots like crazy.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: DebFrmHell on July 04, 2012, 06:43:22 PM
According to GZ's statement to Serino, he was diagnosed with ADD as a child. Add**all does not cause those effects in children or others with ADD. It may cause them in some people who take it who do not have ADD.  Add**all causes the opposite effect in those with ADD, it slows them down, allows them to concentrate and focus. If it weren't safe, it would not be prescribed to children as young as 6.

In other words, if GZ has ADD, his use of Add**all would have made him less prone to violent behavior and more in control.

Also please do not spell out Add**all or amphet**mines in your comments. They are censored words because they attract non-human spambots like crazy.

Sorry, I didn't know about the spambots.  I will be careful for here on out.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: Aussie54 on July 04, 2012, 07:34:47 PM
According to GZ's statement to Serino, he was diagnosed with ADD as a child. Add**all does not cause those effects in children or others with ADD. It may cause them in some people who take it who do not have ADD.  Add**all causes the opposite effect in those with ADD, it slows them down, allows them to concentrate and focus. If it weren't safe, it would not be prescribed to children as young as 6.

In other words, if GZ has ADD, his use of Add**all would have made him less prone to violent behavior and more in control.

Also please do not spell out Add**all or amphet**mines in your comments. They are censored words because they attract non-human spambots like crazy.

Jeralyn, my apologies for spelling out those words. I will keep that in mind, because I know all about those spambots  :'(
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: Aussie54 on July 06, 2012, 05:38:50 PM
George Zimmerman's visit the day after is causing me some confusion.  It would appear that he went there primarily because of his nasal distress.  His list of medications is brief including what is basically two vitamins including an iodine tablet, a sleep aid and something for acid reflux.  He only saw a PA?

I remember reading that his physician had recommended a psychiatrist for PTSD and from the medications he mentioned in jail calls he had his Adderal and one other medication, mirtazapine for an antidepressant and sleep aid .   I thought he had to have seen a physician or a shrink to get someone to get those prescriptions.   A PA couldn't issue those meds.  IMO.

Is this just one of possibly two medical reports?

Deb the two vitamins are not exactly vitamins but are used by people with arthritis. The report also mentions a diagnosis for sacroiliitis. Ouch!!
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: DebFrmHell on July 07, 2012, 10:36:48 PM
I thought he might have gotten that from getting knocked on his beauhunkus, Aussie.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: Aussie54 on July 08, 2012, 03:44:30 PM
I thought he might have gotten that from getting knocked on his beauhunkus, Aussie.

Deb, he would have gotten a new round of inflammation. A doctor cannot diagnose sacroiliitis without x-rays. There were no x-rays taken that day, which indicates to me that there could be a pre-existing condition already diagnosed. In fact if anything, the fall on his back and having that person on top of him would have set up a new round of inflammation. It does not take much for the area at S1 to become inflamed. However, it is usually the muscles that are causing the problem, not the joint itself.

I actually suspect that there is some kind of pre-history that is involved. It is not normal for a 28 year-old to be taking stuff that is useful for people with arthritis, and it is listed in pre-history.

As one who has had a diagnosis of sacroiliitis, and who has had multiple falls, let's just say I know how that works  :-\   

I was surprised when I noticed exactly what was prescribed or at least what he was taking. I noticed because I have had my own struggles. I am well aware of the limitations involved with having inflammation of the sacroiliac joint. I am honestly not so certain that this man could have run all that fast and that shoots down what the Prosecution is claiming to have happened.


Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: SuzieTampa on July 08, 2012, 07:34:12 PM
I remember reading that his physician had recommended a psychiatrist for PTSD and from the medications he mentioned in jail calls he had his Adderal and one other medication, mirtazapine for an antidepressant and sleep aid .   I thought he had to have seen a physician or a shrink to get someone to get those prescriptions.   A PA couldn't issue those meds.  IMO.

As far as I know, a physician's assistant can prescribe those meds in FL. I think they have the same prescribing abilities as nurse practitioners.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: turbo6 on July 11, 2012, 10:15:06 PM
The thing that irks me here is that people seem to think he is on this wacky cocktail of meds that would make the average person inclined to go crazy at the drop of a hat. The three meds he mentions he takes are pretty run of the mill, with Add**all and temazepam being really commonly prescribed medications. In fact, a lot of doctors frequently pair those two together as Add**all is known to cause insomnia. They are both old, tried and true drugs that are pretty safe.

He mentions taking Librax too which is not that common anymore but its generally given to those with IBS. One of the two drugs that make up Librax is a benzodiazepine, like temazepam, which has a calming effect that is supposed to help ease problems with IBS.

So if anything, being on two benzos its doubtful the guy is remotely "on edge" or a "loose cannon".



Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: Aussie54 on July 12, 2012, 07:32:53 PM
The thing that irks me here is that people seem to think he is on this wacky cocktail of meds that would make the average person inclined to go crazy at the drop of a hat. The three meds he mentions he takes are pretty run of the mill, with Add**all and temazepam being really commonly prescribed medications. In fact, a lot of doctors frequently pair those two together as Add**all is known to cause insomnia. They are both old, tried and true drugs that are pretty safe.

He mentions taking Librax too which is not that common anymore but its generally given to those with IBS. One of the two drugs that make up Librax is a benzodiazepine, like temazepam, which has a calming effect that is supposed to help ease problems with IBS.

So if anything, being on two benzos its doubtful the guy is remotely "on edge" or a "loose cannon".

I am not aware of the benefits of using temaze for IBS. Over here the treatment for IBS is more fiber in the diet. However, temaze is used for when there are sleep difficulties. Another in the same family is used to treat muscle spasm.  Most of these things react differently for various conditions.

It is only when taken illegally that there is likely to be a problem.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: DebFrmHell on July 12, 2012, 11:13:11 PM
Deb, he would have gotten a new round of inflammation. A doctor cannot diagnose sacroiliitis without x-rays. There were no x-rays taken that day, which indicates to me that there could be a pre-existing condition already diagnosed. In fact if anything, the fall on his back and having that person on top of him would have set up a new round of inflammation. It does not take much for the area at S1 to become inflamed. However, it is usually the muscles that are causing the problem, not the joint itself.

I actually suspect that there is some kind of pre-history that is involved. It is not normal for a 28 year-old to be taking stuff that is useful for people with arthritis, and it is listed in pre-history.

As one who has had a diagnosis of sacroiliitis, and who has had multiple falls, let's just say I know how that works  :-\   

I was surprised when I noticed exactly what was prescribed or at least what he was taking. I noticed because I have had my own struggles. I am well aware of the limitations involved with having inflammation of the sacroiliac joint. I am honestly not so certain that this man could have run all that fast and that shoots down what the Prosecution is claiming to have happened.

OKay.  I was thinking of you when I was reading page 99.  In October 2011, Zimmerman requested and received permission to use his personal chair at his workstation because of a previous back injury.  ((There was some incident where one of the employees cut his lock off of the chair to access his workstation.))

You are right.  There is no way that overweight, out of shape guy was running anywhere, much less chasing down a fleet-of-foot teenager.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 13, 2012, 10:56:12 AM

By Dee Dee's tale, Zimmerman didn't need to run. A forty-five minute walk, with a fifteen minute rest at the mail kiosk, followed by a short run, left poor Martin so tuckered out he could only manage a Tim Conway shuffle. Zimmerman caught up to him at a Harvey Korman amble.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: DebFrmHell on July 13, 2012, 11:18:01 AM
By Dee Dee's tale, Zimmerman didn't need to run. A forty-five minute walk, with a fifteen minute rest at the mail kiosk, followed by a short run, left poor Martin so tuckered out he could only manage a Tim Conway shuffle. Zimmerman caught up to him at a Harvey Korman amble.

You are such a Dorf-fus!  8-)

But thanks for the smile this morning!
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: turbo6 on July 13, 2012, 07:46:23 PM
I am not aware of the benefits of using temaze for IBS. Over here the treatment for IBS is more fiber in the diet. However, temaze is used for when there are sleep difficulties. Another in the same family is used to treat muscle spasm.  Most of these things react differently for various conditions.

It is only when taken illegally that there is likely to be a problem.

Sorry if I was unclear, temazepam is indeed for sleep while Librax is generally for IBS. Most drugs in the same class (benzodiazepines) as temazepam have some muscle relaxing properties, with Valium probably being the most potent. Librax is made up of two drugs, one of which is also a benzodiazepine (chlordiazepoxide) which is said to relax the stomach and ease IBS.

Point being a patient on two benzos should be pretty relaxed and hardly aggressive.

Its difficult for me to believe Zimmerman, who not that long ago admitted on a 911 call that he would absolutely not want to confront the suspect, truly had the intent to "capture" TM. He could have easily done so right by Frank Taaffe's house, or at the clubhouse, or sitting in his truck as TM approached on TTL.

It makes no sense that passing on all those opportunities, GZ just all of a sudden decided "OK, I'll get him now!" and ran after him on foot into the darkness thinking he would actually catch a younger and slender person who could easily outrun a person like himself.

It makes much more sense that, like many of his other calls, he simply wanted to keep an eye on the suspect. I'm sure as Zimmerman exited the vehicle the next glimpse he thought he'd see of TM would be him running 100 yards in front of him heading for the back gate.

Except, unlike all of the other ones who simply ran, this particular one decided to stay close by....

Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: unitron on July 13, 2012, 09:18:18 PM
Sorry if I was unclear, temazepam is indeed for sleep while Librax is generally for IBS. Most drugs in the same class (benzodiazepines) as temazepam have some muscle relaxing properties, with Valium probably being the most potent. Librax is made up of two drugs, one of which is also a benzodiazepine (chlordiazepoxide) which is said to relax the stomach and ease IBS.

Point being a patient on two benzos should be pretty relaxed and hardly aggressive.

Its difficult for me to believe Zimmerman, who not that long ago admitted on a 911 call that he would absolutely not want to confront the suspect, truly had the intent to "capture" TM. He could have easily done so right by Frank Taaffe's house, or at the clubhouse, or sitting in his truck as TM approached on TTL.

It makes no sense that passing on all those opportunities, GZ just all of a sudden decided "OK, I'll get him now!" and ran after him on foot into the darkness thinking he would actually catch a younger and slender person who could easily outrun a person like himself.

It makes much more sense that, like many of his other calls, he simply wanted to keep an eye on the suspect. I'm sure as Zimmerman exited the vehicle the next glimpse he thought he'd see of TM would be him running 100 yards in front of him heading for the back gate.

Except, unlike all of the other ones who simply ran, this particular one decided to stay close by....

Except that jumping out of his truck to do so in the dark and the rain made no sense when he could drive down to the back entrance far faster than Martin could get there on foot, which would have left him with both a roof over his head and headlights that could provide more illumination than any flashlight.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: Lousy1 on July 13, 2012, 09:32:07 PM
Except that jumping out of his truck to do so in the dark and the rain made no sense when he could drive down to the back entrance far faster than Martin could get there on foot, which would have left him with both a roof over his head and headlights that could provide more illumination than any flashlight.

You are correct. If he had decide to follow Martin. Not if he was just waiting for the cops
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 14, 2012, 06:14:58 AM
Zimmerman, who not that long ago admitted on a 911 call that he would absolutely not want to confront the suspect,

All of Zimmerman's suspicious persons calls were non-emergency, except for one he made years ago from a different neighborhood.

There are two ways to tell the difference. You can listen to the call, or look up the record. Details. (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2027.msg96479.html#new)

I think the call you have in mind was on February 2. (http://axiomamnesia.com/Audio/Zimmerman911Calls/Treyvon-Martin-George-Zimmerman-Black-Male-Seen-Before-Picking-Up-Trash.mp3)
Title: Giving Chase
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 14, 2012, 07:08:39 AM
It makes no sense that passing on all those opportunities, GZ just all of a sudden decided "OK, I'll get him now!" and ran after him on foot into the darkness thinking he would actually catch a younger and slender person who could easily outrun a person like himself.

I think Zimmerman trying to detain Martin is far-fetched for reasons that aren't on topic here. The above argument isn't convincing.

Stamina is largely a function of how much exercise a person gets, with probably some genetic variation. Age matters, but the difference between late teens and late twenties isn't that great.

Body weight is a function of exercise, food intake, and different genetic factors, particularly regarding metabolism.

An overweight person can have good stamina, and a skinny person can have poor stamina.

I was always skinny as a kid, but I wasn't always in good shape, and I was never very athletic.

If Zimmerman's running was seriously inhibited by his lower back problem, that's another matter. But I don't know if that's been proven.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: leftwig on July 14, 2012, 09:08:35 AM
Except that jumping out of his truck to do so in the dark and the rain made no sense when he could drive down to the back entrance far faster than Martin could get there on foot, which would have left him with both a roof over his head and headlights that could provide more illumination than any flashlight.

That seems to be assuming that Z knew exactly where TM was going to run.  Given what people have said about him getting out of his car to see where TM ran, can you imagine what they would have said if he had chased him down in his car?  IF he does this with his car and TM gets hurt, then Z would have been liable for sure.
Title: Re: Giving Chase
Post by: Raoul on July 14, 2012, 11:31:36 AM
I think Zimmerman trying to detain Martin is far-fetched for reasons that aren't on topic here. The above argument isn't convincing.

Stamina is largely a function of how much exercise a person gets, with probably some genetic variation. Age matters, but the difference between late teens and late twenties isn't that great.

Body weight is a function of exercise, food intake, and different genetic factors, particularly regarding metabolism.

An overweight person can have good stamina, and a skinny person can have poor stamina.

I was always skinny as a kid, but I wasn't always in good shape, and I was never very athletic.

If Zimmerman's running was seriously inhibited by his lower back problem, that's another matter. But I don't know if that's been proven.

Take a look at those shoes/boots GZ was wearing. He's not going to be able to run very fast in them.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: unitron on July 14, 2012, 01:31:14 PM
That seems to be assuming that Z knew exactly where TM was going to run.  Given what people have said about him getting out of his car to see where TM ran, can you imagine what they would have said if he had chased him down in his car?  IF he does this with his car and TM gets hurt, then Z would have been liable for sure.

Oh, please. I didn't say he had to burn rubber or go off-road, and I didn't say chase him with the truck, I was talking about driving to where he expected Martin to wind up.

 If his truck is facing the way he said it was, he sees Martin run to the east, turn right somewhere and disappear (and assumes he's headed to the back entrance to "escape").

He drives south down Twin Trees, where he can see that Martin is not in the middle of the road, turns left, and he and his headlights are able to take up a surveillance position.

And if he's still so desperate for a Retreat View Circle address at the east end of the cut-through, he can drive north up RVC from there to get it.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: unitron on July 14, 2012, 01:39:58 PM
You are correct. If he had decide to follow Martin. Not if he was just waiting for the cops

If he was just waiting for the cops, he could have stayed out of the rain in his truck.

If he desperately needed that RVC address at the east end of the cut-through, he could drive south on TTL, bear left after passing Long Oak Way on the right, then turn left again onto the east leg of RVC and go north, and get to the same point, probably almost as quickly as he could have walked it west to east.

Then both he and his truck would be where he was going to meet with the cops.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: Lousy1 on July 14, 2012, 02:16:02 PM
If he was just waiting for the cops, he could have stayed out of the rain in his truck.

If he desperately needed that RVC address at the east end of the cut-through, he could drive south on TTL, bear left after passing Long Oak Way on the right, then turn left again onto the east leg of RVC and go north, and get to the same point, probably almost as quickly as he could have walked it west to east.

Then both he and his truck would be where he was going to meet with the cops.

If he desperately needed  that RVC address at the east end of the cut-through he could walk 40 feet. About the same distance as back to his truck.

 I agree the back entrance was the probable destination of TM . I also agree if GZ wanted to do more than simply wait and make a report, then his truck was a good option. That he didn't use the truck speaks volumes.

I personally would be in no hurry to scrunch in my truck while waiting for, who knows how long?
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: leftwig on July 14, 2012, 02:31:02 PM
Oh, please. I didn't say he had to burn rubber or go off-road, and I didn't say chase him with the truck, I was talking about driving to where he expected Martin to wind up.

 If his truck is facing the way he said it was, he sees Martin run to the east, turn right somewhere and disappear (and assumes he's headed to the back entrance to "escape").

He drives south down Twin Trees, where he can see that Martin is not in the middle of the road, turns left, and he and his headlights are able to take up a surveillance position.

And if he's still so desperate for a Retreat View Circle address at the east end of the cut-through, he can drive north up RVC from there to get it.

That is your assumption of what Z thinks at the moment TM runs.  He may have come to that conclusion later, although while giving his address to the dispatcher he pauses and says he doesn't know where TM is, so it appears even at this point he hasn't assumed TM made his escape through the back entrance.

To get to a position where he could use his headlights and shine them down the dog walk area, he'd have to commit one or more traffic violations.  Say he see's Martin with his headlights and Martin dashes between the buildings, is Z supposed to continue pursuing in his vehicle?  Would this not be considered a chase?  IF Martin runs out into the road to evade Z who is chasing him in his vehicle, would not Z be criminally liable?

I'm not saying what you suggest is not a possible action Z could have taken.  Its just not my assumption that it represents the most logical action for Z to take.  The kid ran on foot where he'd unlikely be able to see him from his car no matter where he drove.  If Z's intent is to maintain a visual or even follow Martin until police arrive, I think he took the most logical course of action.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: Lousy1 on July 14, 2012, 02:36:17 PM
If Z's intent is to maintain a visual or even follow Martin until police arrive, I think he took the most logical course of action.

Since he was not in sight of TM from the moment Zimmerman lost him until he was attacked  by TM why would his position somewhere on the crosswalk be optimal for either maintaining a visual or following TM?
Title: Re: Giving Chase
Post by: turbo6 on July 14, 2012, 05:27:47 PM
I think Zimmerman trying to detain Martin is far-fetched for reasons that aren't on topic here. The above argument isn't convincing.

Stamina is largely a function of how much exercise a person gets, with probably some genetic variation. Age matters, but the difference between late teens and late twenties isn't that great.

Body weight is a function of exercise, food intake, and different genetic factors, particularly regarding metabolism.

An overweight person can have good stamina, and a skinny person can have poor stamina.

I was always skinny as a kid, but I wasn't always in good shape, and I was never very athletic.

If Zimmerman's running was seriously inhibited by his lower back problem, that's another matter. But I don't know if that's been proven.

That is a good point and all but TM was a football player in his teens. Zimmerman is well, just look at him.

Regardless, whatever your reasoning is, it seems unlikely GZ went into predator mode when he bumped into TM for the last time. Considering the guy practically sh*t his pants and asked when an officer would arrive when Martin approached the truck prior, its likely this time on foot was no different.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: Lousy1 on July 14, 2012, 05:34:04 PM



Regardless, whatever your reasoning is, it seems unlikely GZ went into predator mode when he bumped into TM for the last time. Considering the guy practically sh*t his pants and asked when an officer would arrive when Martin approached the truck prior, its likely this time on foot was no different.
Every witness interviewed by the FBI characterized George as nonaggressive; even when provoked.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: unitron on July 14, 2012, 06:18:09 PM
If he desperately needed  that RVC address at the east end of the cut-through he could walk 40 feet. About the same distance as back to his truck...

If he never gets out of the truck, there is no "back to the truck" necessary.

Assuming we're talking about the version where he only gets out of the truck (in a great big hurry) to go get an address.

I agree the back entrance was the probable destination of TM .

Most of us were fooled into thinking he might actually be returning to Brandy Green's house.

So he was just cutting through The Retreat at Twin Lakes to get to South Oregon Avenue?


I also agree if GZ wanted to do more than simply wait and make a report, then his truck was a good option. That he didn't use the truck speaks volumes.

I personally would be in no hurry to scrunch in my truck while waiting for, who knows how long?


I thought that's what Zimmerman was supposed to be doing, waiting for the police to arrive.

(If not he could have just driven around, gotten the RVC address, called back and told them "I last saw him near XXXX Retreat View Circle, you guys handle it, I'm going to get groceries.")

I'm pretty sure they'd have gotten there at the same time whether he was behind the wheel or out on foot in the dark and the rain.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 14, 2012, 06:21:45 PM
You mean besides the ex-girlfriend and the cop that had to arrest him outside the bar?

Zimmerman's story is that the captain in charge of the sting was going to let him go, until the agent he pushed threw a fit. (2/29-1, 18:56-19:47)
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: unitron on July 14, 2012, 06:21:52 PM
...  If Z's intent is to maintain a visual or even follow Martin until police arrive, I think he took the most logical course of action.

He's going to maintain a visual on or follow someone who's already disappeared from view?

Does his "looking through houses in the dark X-ray vision" only work if he gets out on foot?
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 14, 2012, 06:32:32 PM
If his ex wife

Zimmerman doesn't have an ex-wife. His current wife is his first.

I think the chewing gum incident you refer to also was with the ex-fiancee, not his wife.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: Lousy1 on July 14, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
If he never gets out of the truck, there is no "back to the truck" necessary.

Assuming we're talking about the version where he only gets out of the truck (in a great big hurry) to go get an address.

If he doesn't get out of the shower the same can be said. So what? He went to get an address.
You assume incorrectly  No hurrying required. Or do you have proof to the contrary?

Most of us were fooled into thinking he might actually be returning to Brandy Green's house.
Yeah sorry I  meant to say( as in my previous posts ) that it was logical for Zimmerman to assume that the suspect was exiting via the rear gate

I thought that's what Zimmerman was supposed to be doing, waiting for the police to arrive.

Yes and it appears thats exactly what he did. That you may have handled it differently is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: unitron on July 14, 2012, 07:11:40 PM
If he doesn't get out of the shower the same can be said. So what? He went to get an address.
You assume incorrectly  No hurrying required. Or do you have proof to the contrary?
Yeah sorry I  meant to say( as in my previous posts ) that it was logical for Zimmerman to assume that the suspect was exiting via the rear gate

Yes and it appears thats exactly what he did. That you may have handled it differently is irrelevant.

You can hear him get out of the truck in a hurry.

If he's chasing after Martin what we hear and what he did make sense.

If he wasn't, they make less sense.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: Lousy1 on July 14, 2012, 07:22:37 PM
You can hear him get out of the truck in a hurry.

If he's chasing after Martin what we hear and what he did make sense.

If he wasn't, they make less sense.

You think you can hear him get out of his truck quickly.  Have you ever heard him get out slowly? Maybe hes a rapid -debarker. So? It certainly doesn't mean he was running after Martin.
Sorry, I have  to stick with the evidence.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: AJ on July 16, 2012, 06:56:23 AM
You think you can hear him get out of his truck quickly.  Have you ever heard him get out slowly? Maybe hes a rapid -debarker. So? It certainly doesn't mean he was running after Martin.
Sorry, I have  to stick with the evidence.

I wouldn't call it "quick" myself - if you watch the tv show Cops and see how fast they get out, this "quick" action from Mr. Zimmerman is about as fast as molasses. I guess that's me though.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: TalkLeft on July 18, 2012, 11:58:27 PM
Comment mischaracterizing an ex-girlfriend as an ex-wife and responses deleted. Zimmerman has no ex-wife. He has an ex-fiance.

This thread is about the medical records, so please keep your comments to that subject.
Title: Re: Altamonte Family Practice
Post by: turbo6 on July 21, 2012, 03:23:35 PM
Look's like the medication regime was switched up in jail:

Zithromax 250 mg (am)
Tylenol 1000 mg (twice a day)
Celexa 20 mg (am)
Bentyl 10 mg (once a day)
Remeron 30 mg (pm)
Add**all 20 mg (8 am, 2 pm)

Zithromax is kind of a non-point as he was probably on it for 5 days, so he's been done with for quite some time. Its just an antibiotic anyway.

Most notably they dropped Libax and Temazepam and went with Bentyl and Remeron. I'd concur Bentyl is probably a better choice for his stomach issues, though I'd say the Remeron really packed that weight back on, he looked like gained a bit back based on the Hannity interview.

Remeron is used both for sleep and/or antidepressant. Celexa is also an antidepressant. Overall a pretty common regime, no pysch drugs yet so he must be hanging in there pretty well.  ;)