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State v. George Zimmerman (Pre-Trial) => Witness Discussion => Topic started by: Screamin Jay on July 07, 2012, 04:39:26 PM

Title: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: Screamin Jay on July 07, 2012, 04:39:26 PM
Witness #14
Austin McLendon, 13 years old
decides to walk his dog starting from back porch door, 20-25 yards from the shooting
as soon as he got outside he heard screamning
went over toward the spot
observed for about 10 seconds
saw one person lying on the ground in red jacket, He thought because it was wet outside that the person had fallen and broken his leg or something, saw no fighting
dog got off the leash, pulled Austin away from the area to retrieve the dog
after grabbing his dog starts back toward the scene
heard the shot but did not see the shooting
went home and his sister called 911. Austin talked to the 911 operator
---------------------------------
This witness, his older sister, and their mother all talked on TV news interviews. He was very upset by the whole event.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on August 06, 2012, 01:38:32 PM
Austin was going out when his mother reminded him to walk the dog. The screaming must not have started yet.
One would think Austin saw everything. He was very upset by what he saw. He's been consistant has he not?
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: TalkLeft on August 06, 2012, 05:40:52 PM
His mother wasn't home. His house isn't that close to the shooting. See the maps. It's on the other side of the break, south of W#19.  He says he only saw one person on the ground, he didn't see two people.
He said the guy looked hurt. it was before the shot. Until his mother changed his story, he told both police and the media the guy he saw had a red top on.

If he walked north on the path from his house, and didn't see any scuffle or wrestling,  or hear anything, I think it  supports that the movement  went north from the T south to 1221 TTL as  GZ has said, and not south to north as the state wants to interpret its "glancing" witness without contacts or her sister (who saw arms) as saying. 

Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: MJW on January 05, 2013, 12:08:40 AM
His mother, Chery Brown, claimed (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/a-look-at-what-happened-the-night-trayvon-martin-died/1223083),
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"He never said he saw someone in a red shirt or someone on top of another person someone is switching his story.  The police came here and asked him leading questions like, 'The first person had a red shirt?' because they wanted him to say, 'Yes, the person had a red shirt.'"

Her claim that Austin only responded to a leading question about the red shirt isn't true, as listening to Serino's interview (http://media2.abcactionnews.com/html/zimmermanevidence/audio/W14_SPD03052012.wav) of McLendon proves. Not only did he say the person on the ground had on a red shirt, he also said the person on the ground was screaming, and stuck by that when Serino offered him that chance to say the screamer might have been someone else.

Too bad his testimony will be tainted by later retractions and modifications. If I were the defense, I'd question Cheryl Brown in detail about her contacts with Crump and his associates prior to her attempts to revise her son's version of events.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 05, 2013, 03:52:21 AM
His mother, Chery Brown, claimed (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/a-look-at-what-happened-the-night-trayvon-martin-died/1223083),

That Miami Herald article is one of the worst I've seen about this case, and that's going some.

Ages ago, before there was any discovery, I did a post (http://www.talkleft.com/comments/2012/5/4/142839/8235/158#158) on Austin and his mother at the blog. It's very dated, but I think it is still a good source on what those two did and did not say, to what media outlets at what times.

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Too bad his testimony will be tainted by later retractions and modifications.

What would those be?

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If I were the defense, I'd question Cheryl Brown in detail about her contacts with Crump and his associates prior to her attempts to revise her son's version of events.

Do you know that there were such contacts?
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: MJW on January 05, 2013, 06:01:57 PM
That Miami Herald article is one of the worst I've seen about this case, and that's going some.

Ages ago, before there was any discovery, I did a post (http://www.talkleft.com/comments/2012/5/4/142839/8235/158#158) on Austin and his mother at the blog. It's very dated, but I think it is still a good source on what those two did and did not say, to what media outlets at what times.

What would those be?

What would those be? That's an odd way of phrasing it. You sound like you don't expect me to have any; yet in your own linked-to comment, you name some: He later said he didn't know who was screaming, though in the original interview he said the person on the ground was screaming. He later said the cries sounded like a child's, but originally said nothing about that. Add to that the later claims, through his mother and through the family's attorney, that he couldn't tell the color the person on the ground was wearing. In your prior comment, you dismiss Cheryl Brown's quoted statement that Austin didn't see that the man wore red, but I'll take the article's exact quote over your incredulity. Furthermore, she and the family attorney said much the same thing (33/284) to O'Steen after the interview with the mother and son.
 
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Do you know that there were such contacts?

Do I know of any? No. Perhaps I should have said, "If I were the defense, I'd question Cheryl Brown in detail about any possible contacts with Crump and his associates prior to her attempts to revise her son's version of events." Do I have evidence of possible contacts? I have circumstantial evidence. Brown took the unusual step for a witness of retaining an attorney. And not just any attorney. The lawyer she chose was Alisia Adamson, who happens to have recently worked with Crump on another case (http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20110913/BREAKING/110919867), and who Crump referred to as his "legal mentee (https://twitter.com/attorneycrump/status/208216991205560320)." Perhaps it's just a coincidence , but it certainly suggests Crump may have played some part in the choice.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 05, 2013, 09:54:16 PM
Add to that the later claims, through his mother and through the family's attorney

Seriously? Since the boy has disappeared from public view, you think he has been sitting on a little throne, directing his mother and her lawyer what to say on his behalf? After you, yourself, presented evidence of her misrepresenting what her son said?
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: MJW on January 05, 2013, 10:45:29 PM
Seriously? Since the boy has disappeared from public view, you think he has been sitting on a little throne, directing his mother and her lawyer what to say on his behalf? After you, yourself, presented evidence of her misrepresenting what her son said?

I don't recall mentioning a throne, little or big, but when the mother of a juvenile or the attorney for the family speaks for the juvenile, I do give it serious consideration. Before mentioning the clothing color, I pointed out two other areas where Austin has seemed to modify his account of what occurred in a way that makes it less helpful to Zimmerman. So whether or not you find the mother's and attorney's statements significant, I still established a basis for saying, "Too bad his testimony will be tainted by later retractions and modifications."
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: MJW on January 06, 2013, 12:18:58 AM
To my previous response, let me add that Cheryl Brown can lie to the press all she wants and not get in trouble. Lying to state investigators in a murder investigation would be a different matter. Likewise, for attorney Adamson. Besides that, Adamson is also an officer of the court.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: unitron on January 06, 2013, 01:24:37 AM
His mother wasn't home. His house isn't that close to the shooting. See the maps. It's on the other side of the break, south of W#19.  He says he only saw one person on the ground, he didn't see two people.
He said the guy looked hurt. it was before the shot. Until his mother changed his story, he told both police and the media the guy he saw had a red top on.

If he walked north on the path from his house, and didn't see any scuffle or wrestling,  or hear anything, I think it  supports that the movement  went north from the T south to 1221 TTL as  GZ has said, and not south to north as the state wants to interpret its "glancing" witness without contacts or her sister (who saw arms) as saying.

If he went north from the back door of his house, he'd have passed right by Zimmerman and Martin.

His back door is almost as close to where the body wound up as the "T" is.

(ordinarily I'd let sleeping posts lie, but I noticed it while perusing the current exchange of a lot more heat than light)
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 06, 2013, 01:59:33 AM
If he went north from the back door of his house,

Austin always said he went out the front door, and went around to the back after he heard the screaming.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: unitron on January 06, 2013, 04:00:50 PM
Austin always said he went out the front door, and went around to the back after he heard the screaming.

Did he go around back across the northern exterior wall of his house?

Did he ever say in which direction the dog ran off?

I'm still puzzled that the dog found something more interesting than the two guys on the ground.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: TalkLeft on January 06, 2013, 10:10:48 PM

His back door is almost as close to where the body wound up as the "T" is.

That is inaccurate. His house is across the way and four houses down.  The "T" is the second house off the T. You can see the difference here (http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk453/TalkLeft/zimmerman/twinhouses16.jpg) and here (http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk453/TalkLeft/zimmerman/witmap470.jpg). His house is 2761.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 07, 2013, 04:23:34 AM
I noticed it while perusing the current exchange of a lot more heat than light

It's an illuminating discussion for me. The prior relationship of Adamson and Crump is interesting information I had not been aware of.

As for it being heated, I would call it 'spirited'.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 07, 2013, 08:26:48 AM
He later said he didn't know who was screaming, though in the original interview he said the person on the ground was screaming.

Those exact words apply to W-6. Is his testimony 'tainted'?

If Austin insisted he could be sure the man he saw was the person screaming, it wouldn't be very credible in the light of W-6's recantation. Austin was further away than W-6.

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He later said the cries sounded like a child's

He allegedly said that to a journalist. (The actual word was 'kid'.) I don't know of any record of him saying that to an LE investigator.

Quote
but originally said nothing about that.

That aspect is a bit worse. He described the person on the ground, who he assumed to be the screamer, as a 'man'. (W-18 also said she saw 'two men' who 'looked like they were wrestling', and 'then I heard the man saying "Help! Help!"' None of the 911 callers said, on their calls, that they heard a juvenile voice.)

Will lay opinions about the age of the person screaming be admissible? Is that a settled issue, or might one side or the other have grounds to contest it?

Voices deepen at puberty, so distinguishing adults from teenagers by voice alone seems problematical to me. I was told I had a pretty deep voice when I was fourteen.

We don't know what Austin will say in court. He might testify that he has never expressed an opinion about the age of the screamer. If all the prosecution has to contest that is a single journalist, I'm not sure the judge/jury will be impressed. The journalist might be impeachable.

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In your prior comment, you dismiss Cheryl Brown's quoted statement

I didn't dismiss it. I said it was possible the Miami Herald got the quote wrong. Do you disagree? Do you consider the reporting of the Miami Herald to be divinely inspired scripture?

The reason I made a point of what I assumed to be the human fallibility of the Miami Herald staff, was to give Cheryl Brown the benefit of the doubt. The alleged quote was a direct contradiction of what she said on The Nancy Grace Show on March 29. (http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/30/mom-of-trayvon-ear-witness-speaks-out/)

The statement attributed to Cheryl Brown was not that Austin once said the garment was red, and later retracted that. It was that he never said the garment was red. You debunked that yourself. I'm puzzled that you're touting it now.

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Furthermore, she and the family attorney said much the same thing (33/284) to O'Steen after the interview with the mother and son.

The interview summary doesn't say that anyone denied that Austin ever said the garment was red.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: unitron on January 07, 2013, 09:55:45 AM
That is inaccurate. His house is across the way and four houses down.  The "T" is the second house off the T. You can see the difference here (http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk453/TalkLeft/zimmerman/twinhouses16.jpg) and here (http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk453/TalkLeft/zimmerman/witmap470.jpg). His house is 2761.

If Zimmerman's truck parked near the west end of the east west sidewalk gets to count as "near" the clubhouse, then my use of the words "almost as close to" makes my statement accurate as well.

Did you actually intend to say "The "X" is the second house off the T."?

Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: unitron on January 07, 2013, 10:02:49 AM
If Zimmerman's truck parked near the west end of the east west sidewalk gets to count as "near" the clubhouse, then my use of the words "almost as close to" makes my statement accurate as well.

Did you actually intend to say "The "X" is the second house off the T."?


Or maybe it was Martin being counted as "near" the clubhouse in

0:55:82 - He's near the clubhouse right now?
0:58:01- Yeah, now he's coming towards me

when Martin was supposedly returning from the T to circle the truck before the "he's running", but somewhere several months ago "near" the clubhouse got defined as near on an inter-galactic scale.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: DebFrmHell on January 07, 2013, 12:01:30 PM
If Zimmerman's truck parked near the west end of the east west sidewalk gets to count as "near" the clubhouse, then my use of the words "almost as close to" makes my statement accurate as well.

Did you actually intend to say "The "X" is the second house off the T."?

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If he went north from the back door of his house, he'd have passed right by Zimmerman and Martin.

His back door is almost as close to where the body wound up as the "T" is.

Wording for "almost" or "near" is something you like to bring up.  However, considering that AG lives in an entirely different building, the statement you make about "His back door is almost as close to where the body" was is factually inaccurate.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: unitron on January 07, 2013, 03:45:11 PM
Wording for "almost" or "near" is something you like to bring up.  However, considering that AG lives in an entirely different building, the statement you make about "His back door is almost as close to where the body" was is factually inaccurate.

Turn up your font size, I can't quite hear you.  :)
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: MJW on January 07, 2013, 06:12:06 PM
Those exact words apply to W-6. Is his testimony 'tainted'?

"Taint" may have been an imperfect word choice. I intended to make the rather uncontroversial point that McLendon's original statement which strongly supports Zimmerman's version of event was weakened by his later statements. The same probably applies even more to W6, who originally had Zimmerman on his back screaming while being pummeled by Martin.

I believe there's a difference, though. I think W6's changes were only motivated by a desire to be as accurate as possible about what he saw. I think Cheryl Brown wants to make sure her son's testimony helps Zimmerman as little as possible. I don't know if Austin shares that objective, but it does make me view the changes to his testimny in a different light than W6's changes.

For both witnesses, I think their original statements, made while the events were fresh in their minds, were probably more accurate.

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Voices deepen at puberty, so distinguishing adults from teenagers by voice alone seems problematical to me. I was told I had a pretty deep voice when I was fourteen.

I looked into that quite a while ago, and as I recall, most males' voice have reached their adult pitch by age 17.

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I didn't dismiss it. I said it was possible the Miami Herald got the quote wrong. Do you disagree? Do you consider the reporting of the Miami Herald to be divinely inspired scripture?

The reason I made a point of what I assumed to be the human fallibility of the Miami Herald staff, was to give Cheryl Brown the benefit of the doubt. The alleged quote was a direct contradiction of what she said on The Nancy Grace Show on March 29. (http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/30/mom-of-trayvon-ear-witness-speaks-out/)

The statement attributed to Cheryl Brown was not that Austin once said the garment was red, and later retracted that. It was that he never said the garment was red. You debunked that yourself. I'm puzzled that you're touting it now.

The interview summary doesn't say that anyone denied that Austin ever said the garment was red.

"Dismiss" was another poor word choice on my part. A more precise word just didn't come to mind at the time. I don't trust articles to get the facts straight -- that article certainly didn't -- but I do assume that they can usually get direct quotes correct. Sometimes they don't, but I think that's a fairly rare exception. In the case of that particular quote, I have almost no doubt Cheryl Brown said it.

One thing to note is that the article where Brown made that statement follows the quotation with, "Brown said she will hire an attorney to demand a copy of the audio statement her son gave to prove he has never wavered, and never claimed to see Zimmerman on the ground."  It must have been made before she retained Adamson. On the Nancy Grace program, she's already represented by Adamson.  So the quotation was made earlier, which may explain the difference. I'll mention in passing the exceptionally odd "representation" of Brown by Adamson, which consisted of lobbying for Zimmerman's arrest.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 07, 2013, 06:59:30 PM
I'll mention in passing the exceptionally odd "representation" of Brown by Adamson, which consisted of lobbying for Zimmerman's arrest.

I don't think that's odd. She was representing her client's interests. Cheryl Brown certainly had an interest, if not in Zimmerman being arrested, then in her family not being blamed if he were not.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: RickyJim on January 08, 2013, 07:04:20 AM
Some basic questions first.  Did Austin mark a map or show in his outdoor video, exactly where he was when he made his observation of somebody on the ground?  In front of which house would his estimate of 20 to 25 yards away make him?  Was he using a flashlight while walking his dog?  Has he been listed as a Category A witness, meaning either the prosecution or defense plans to put him on the stand?

I don't think the prosecution can possibly assert that Zimmerman wasn't down on his back at sometime during the struggle with Martin, so Austin's testimony there does little for the defense.  Also if Witness6 couldn't tell by sight whose mouth was yelling Help! neither could Austin.  I think his main importance is to tell how dark it was in the dog walk.  That and the evidence that Zimmerman's large flashlight wasn't operational establish that Zimmerman wasn't in the dog walk before the fight.  It will be a big win for the defense if they can convincingly show that Zimmerman restricted himself to the cut through and perhaps a little time on RVC after leaving his car and before meeting up with Martin.  If you ask me the irrelevant question of do I think if his large flashlight had been working, Zimmerman would have gone into the cut through, my answer is a definite yes.   :D

Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: RickyJim on January 08, 2013, 10:16:33 AM
If you ask me the irrelevant question of do I think if his large flashlight had been working, Zimmerman would have gone into the cut through, my answer is a definite yes.   :D
Change that into the dog walk.  Sorry.  :-[
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: leftwig on January 08, 2013, 11:29:01 AM
Austin's testimony there does little for the defense.  Also if Witness6 couldn't tell by sight whose mouth was yelling Help! neither could Austin. 

I do agree that Austin probably isn't going to be a good witness for anyone, but Austin say he saw a man on the ground and heard a man screaming.  I don't know if he was close enough to determine that the person on the ground was a man, but I imagine he could hear the voice well enough to tell whether he thought it a child screaming as other witnesses (and one unbelievable voice "expert") have claimed.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: TalkLeft on January 08, 2013, 09:35:31 PM
If Zimmerman's truck parked near the west end of the east west sidewalk gets to count as "near" the clubhouse, then my use of the words "almost as close to" makes my statement accurate as well.

Unitron, stop dancing. You said, "His back door is almost as close to where the body wound up as the "T" is." You said nothing about where Zimmerman's truck was.  Nor is it relevant to your comment. Your statement was factually inaccurate.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: unitron on January 09, 2013, 11:10:23 PM
Unitron, stop dancing. You said, "His back door is almost as close to where the body wound up as the "T" is." You said nothing about where Zimmerman's truck was.  Nor is it relevant to your comment. Your statement was factually inaccurate.

Several months ago there was a conversation around here about how near is near.

I was thinking, or remembering, or mis-remembering, it had to do with where Zimmerman was parked,.

However, as you can see from the post that follows that one, on further reflection, I though it might have had to do with Martin being somehow simultaneously "near" the clubhouse and "near" the "T".

At the time of that conversation I though that others, attempting, it seemed, to give Zimmerman every possible benefit of the doubt in considering whether the call that Sunday night matched up with his later accounts, allowed for a definition of near which was so broad in that context (most of the width of the neighhborhood), that I felt it rendered the word meaningless.

So if others were going to get to claim broad definitions for words related to linear measures, I decided I was equally entitled, or at least not entirely unjustified in a little touch of snark on the subject.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 09, 2013, 11:27:54 PM
Did Austin mark a map or show in his outdoor video, exactly where he was when he made his observation of somebody on the ground? 

Here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeandodge/7265603202/in/set-72157629976024341)

Austin did not mark this map. It is based on where he is standing in the video.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: RickyJim on January 10, 2013, 07:47:11 AM
So Austin's estimate on the video of being 20 to 25 yards from the fight seems to be correct?  The fact that he couldn't see one of the participants makes it pretty clear that Zimmerman couldn't see very far into the dog part from the T.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: leftwig on January 10, 2013, 08:17:35 AM
According to the map, Austin's red dot is about 25 yards from the 'T', where the fight presumably began and maybe 10 yards or so from where TM's body ended up.  If he was within 10 yards of GZ, I am not sure how he would not have seen a second individual.  I'm guessing he was a little further away.  Did he indicate in that video where he saw the man in red lying on the ground calling for help?
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on January 10, 2013, 10:05:27 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/17/trayvon-martin-killing-yo_n_1355795.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/17/trayvon-martin-killing-yo_n_1355795.html)

Austin at the spot where he stood when he witnessed the scuffle
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: RickyJim on January 10, 2013, 05:38:09 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/17/trayvon-martin-killing-yo_n_1355795.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/17/trayvon-martin-killing-yo_n_1355795.html)

Austin at the spot where he stood when he witnessed the scuffle
That picture does not coincide with what Austin was wearing on either of the two videos I know. In this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pcrUxi4PSFg) he says that the person yelling was about 20 to 25 yards from the back of his house (is that correct?) and it is not clear he got closer.  In the other one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZVMZs4X90Q), he says the person on the ground was wearing a red t-shirt.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: RickyJim on January 10, 2013, 07:12:07 PM
One other interesting thing he said on the first video "it had just rained" when he went outside.  This means it wasn't raining then.  This casts doubt on the theory that Zimmerman didn't wait for the cops on Retreat View Circle because it had started raining harder there.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 10, 2013, 07:25:10 PM
One other interesting thing he said on the first video "it had just rained" when he went outside.  This means it wasn't raining then. 

From the statements of W-11, W-18, and W-20 it seems to have been raining hard about that time.

Dee Dee indicated that the rain had stopped.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: RickyJim on January 10, 2013, 07:37:45 PM
I would trust the opinion of somebody who had actually gone outside and heard the screaming, as to whether it had stopped raining then, rather than somebody who remained inside.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 10, 2013, 08:19:23 PM
I would trust the opinion of somebody who had actually gone outside and heard the screaming, as to whether it had stopped raining then, rather than somebody who remained inside.

I would agree if the people inside thought it wasn't raining.

W-11 and W-18 both said it was raining so hard they wondered that anyone would be outside. W-20 gave the rain as a reason it was hard to hear other noises outside.

W-18 also said she had just shut her windows because it had started to rain hard.

All three of those witnesses heard the screaming.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 10, 2013, 10:04:18 PM
In this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pcrUxi4PSFg) he says that the person yelling was about 20 to 25 yards from the back of his house (is that correct?) and it is not clear he got closer.

On Google Earth it looks like at least 40 yards.

One other interesting thing he said on the first video "it had just rained" when he went outside.  This means it wasn't raining then.

Not necessarily. I think it's ambiguous.

There's nothing about the weather in the Serino interview, (http://media2.abcactionnews.com/html/zimmermanevidence/audio/W14_SPD03052012.wav) or the SAO interview summary (33/284 (http://www.clickorlando.com/blob/view/-/15490330/data/1/-/kligxm/-/Zimmerman-documents.pdf)). 

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This casts doubt on the theory that Zimmerman didn't wait for the cops on Retreat View Circle because it had started raining harder there.

That would have been about half a minute earlier.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 11, 2013, 04:00:01 AM
Lying to state investigators in a murder investigation would be a different matter. Likewise, for attorney Adamson.

As we saw in our discussion of the Shellie Zimmerman perjury case, when discussing potential legal liability for false statements, it is essential to examine the exact wording of the statements in question.

I don't know of any verbatim statements to investigators by Cheryl Brown or Alisia Adamson. I assume you are alluding to 33/284, (http://www.clickorlando.com/blob/view/-/15490330/data/1/-/kligxm/-/Zimmerman-documents.pdf) which is a paraphrased summary.

Even the paraphrase does not support the claim that either Brown or Adamson said that Austin recanted his statement that the person he saw on the ground wore a red upper garment.
 
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[Redacted] attorney, [redacted] was also present during this interview. [Redacted] had concerns over [redacted] reference to the red hoodie. They advised that when [redacted] originally talked with the police, they felt that [redacted] may have been persuaed by police to say red hoodie. They said they would talk with [redacted] and will let us know.

3/27/2012, 8:15 pm - I received a call from [redacted]. She advised that [redacted] did not know what the subject he had seen was wearing. He felt obligated to say red hoodie since he had told the police that during an earlier interview.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: leftwig on January 11, 2013, 07:26:39 AM
One other interesting thing he said on the first video "it had just rained" when he went outside.  This means it wasn't raining then.  This casts doubt on the theory that Zimmerman didn't wait for the cops on Retreat View Circle because it had started raining harder there.

I think NMN hit most of the points.  Witnesses stated it was raining hard as they heard the arguing.  Austin went outside after the rain stopped.  I took my daughter to school today like normal.  when we pulled out of the garage, it was pouring rain.  By the time I got about half a mile up the road, it had stopped.  I don't think thats all that unusual. 

Again, I don't know if heavy rain is why GZ decided not to wait for the police on RVC, but I think witness statements fit that possibility.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: RickyJim on January 11, 2013, 07:40:45 AM
Austin seems to be a well spoken, for his age, young man and I think he knows proper usage of the past perfect.  He said he heard the screams right after leaving his house and it "had been raining" then.  It definitely wasn't has.  The people inside their apartments may have confused wind noise with rain.  If it was raining hard, they wouldn't have been able to hear the screams.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: unitron on January 11, 2013, 07:56:14 AM
As we saw in our discussion of the Shellie Zimmerman perjury case, when discussing potential legal liability for false statements, it is essential to examine the exact wording of the statements in question...

And, as we saw, to make sure that the statements haven't had stuff left out without any indication that it was done.
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: unitron on January 11, 2013, 07:59:15 AM
... The people inside their apartments may have confused wind noise with rain...

Yeah, remember that sudden gust that sprang up just as Zimmerman was getting out of his truck and slowly sauntering in a direction that by sheer co-incidence was the same direction that Martin had just gone?

 ;D
Title: Re: Witness 14 - Austin McClendon (13 Yr Old)
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on January 11, 2013, 08:05:59 AM
I think he knows proper usage of the past perfect. 

I don't agree the usage would be improper.