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State v. George Zimmerman (Pre-Trial) => Zimmerman Family and Friends => Topic started by: TalkLeft on July 27, 2012, 05:51:16 PM

Title: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: TalkLeft on July 27, 2012, 05:51:16 PM
Shellie Zimmerman's lawyer, Kelly Sims, filed a not guilty plea for her today on perjury charges. She won't have to appear at her arraignment next week.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: FromBelow on July 31, 2012, 08:11:13 AM
How long is this case likely to take? I mean there doesn't seem to be a lot of data that would need to be gone through. I would think things would go pretty quickly. Also, if she's found innocent would that have any effect on Lester's claim that the court was lied to? Might her innocence be useful in some way to the defense?
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: FromBelow on August 16, 2012, 10:25:17 PM
Is there an update on this? Is anything scheduled? There doesn't seem to be a lot of info via google.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: TalkLeft on August 16, 2012, 11:49:51 PM
Is there an update on this? Is anything scheduled? There doesn't seem to be a lot of info via google.

DOCKET SOUNDING SEP 19, 2012 AT 09:00 AM . The docket is here (http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=592012CF001792A) and you can check it for updates.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on November 30, 2012, 02:24:57 PM
The Orlando Sentinel reports (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-shellie-zimmerman-perjury-dismissal-request-20121129,0,7951118.story) that Shellie's lawyer, Kelly B. Sims, has moved for dismissal of the perjury charges on the grounds that the special prosecutor lacks the authority to prosecute the case.

An interesting argument. I wish I could read the motion, to see what he cites in support. I think the breadth of a special prosecutor's power to prosecute related matters would vary from state to state. If Shellie wins the motion, I think she would still be subject to prosecution by the normal prosecuting authority within her district, though it would be within their discretion whether to bring charges.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: cboldt on December 01, 2012, 02:59:15 PM
The Orlando Sentinel reports (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-shellie-zimmerman-perjury-dismissal-request-20121129,0,7951118.story) that Shellie's lawyer, Kelly B. Sims, has moved for dismissal of the perjury charges on the grounds that the special prosecutor lacks the authority to prosecute the case.

An interesting argument. I wish I could read the motion, to see what he cites in support. I think the breadth of a special prosecutor's power to prosecute related matters would vary from state to state. If Shellie wins the motion, I think she would still be subject to prosecution by the normal prosecuting authority within her district, though it would be within their discretion whether to bring charges.

Governor Scott's Executive Order (http://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Executive-Order-12-72.pdf)

The order says Corey is "assigned to discharge the duties of the Honorable NORMAN R. WOLFINGER ... as they relate to the investigation and all matters pertaining to the death of Trayvon Martin."  So, I suppose the jurisdictional grant comes down to the scope of "all matters pertaining the the death of Trayvon Martin."<p>

Separately, the assignment has a one year term, which expires at the end of March 22, 2013.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: DebFrmHell on December 14, 2012, 07:23:19 PM
So Shellie Zimmerman got a new judge, too.  It was remarked upon in the article that has Judge Nelson hearing the GZvNBC case.
Link to Article (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-nbc-judge-20121214,0,5740654.story)

Quote
...She'll hang onto the Zimmerman second-degree murder case, which she has set for trial in June, but will hand off her other pending criminal cases, including the perjury case against Zimmerman's wife, Shellie Zimmerman.

It will now be handled by (Marlene) Alva, 60.

Insertion of first name by me!
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: unitron on December 15, 2012, 02:52:29 AM
...

Separately, the assignment has a one year term, which expires at the end of March 22, 2013.

Isn't that before Zimmerman's M2 trial starts?
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on January 22, 2013, 06:58:38 PM
Tomorrow (Jan. 23, 2013), there's a hearing in Shellie's case. So far, the court website doesn't show any response to the motion to dismiss or petition for a writ of quo warranto.

For those who haven't looked it up, a writ of quo warranto challenges the legal authority of a government official to perform some act. In this case, the authority of the special prosecutor to bring the case against Shellie.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a copy of the motion, but as I mentioned before, I'm not particularly optimistic about its likelihood of success. Nevertheless, it doesn't seem to me to be frivolous, so I expected to see a response. I do know that the timing of the motion is correct. A petition for a writ of quo warranto should be brought prior to trial. I also know the trial court's decision can be appealed to the DCA. An interesting case is Hardy v. Rundle (http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17890376808832470463&hl=en&as_sdt=2,45), 846 So. 2d 1174 (Fla. 2nd DCA 2003). The 2nd DCA says:

Quote
Paul Hardy and Leo Salvatori seek review of the final judgment dismissing their complaint for writ of quo warranto. The complaint sought to prevent a special prosecutor from prosecuting count fourteen of a criminal information which charged Hardy and Salvatori with money laundering. We conclude that the executive order issued by the governor giving the special prosecutor the authority to prosecute certain matters did not encompass the claim for money laundering asserted in count fourteen. Accordingly, we reverse.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on January 23, 2013, 11:32:48 AM
Some new documents showed up in the "detailed  case view (http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=592012CF001792A)" this morning. It appears the state's response to the defense  motion  to dismiss or petition for writ of quo warranto was filed on Jan. 13, and the docket sounding scheduled for today was continued to Feb. 20.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on January 23, 2013, 07:04:32 PM
The Orlando Sentinel has a story (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-shellie-zimmerman-special-prosecutor-20130123,0,2102641.story) about the Shellie Zimmerman case. It says the motion will be heard on Feb. 19. The article also says:

Quote
Last month, Gov. Rick Scott renewed Corey's appointment as special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case, and this time, the order expressly spelled out that Corey's assignment included "the cases filed against George Zimmerman and Shellie Zimmerman."

I don't agree. In the “whereas” section giving the reason for the order, it says:

Quote
WHEREAS, the Assigned State Attorney has advised the governor that the duties required by the previous executive assignment have not been completed as the cases filed against George Zimmerman and Shellie Zimmerman, as a result of the investigation, are pending;

The actual executive order 12-279 is:

Quote
Section 1:
Executive Order 12-72 is reaffirmed and the executive assignment is extended for an additional period of (1) year, to and including March 22, 2014.
Section 2:
The Assigned State Attorney shall notify the Governor on or before February 14, 2014, if additional time is required.

All the new executive order does is extend the previous order. Through the statement of fact that the SP advised the governor that the  case against Shellie hasn't been completed suggests the governor may now believe Shellie's case is within the SP's authority, nothing in the new EO makes it so.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on January 24, 2013, 02:01:47 AM
I mentiond the 2nd DCA case Hardy v. Rundle. John Galt at Conservative Treehouse linked to the state's Petition for Discretionary Review (http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/clerk/briefs/2003/1201-1400/03-1207_JurisIni.pdf) in the state supreme court. The court didn't take the case.

I think the case seems to be a closer call than Shellie's case, so if the trial court follows the (unexplained) logic of the 2nd DCA, it might actually find the special prosecutor lacked the authority to charge Shellie.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on February 19, 2013, 10:41:00 AM

Hearing on motion to dismiss at 1:30 today.

Orlando Sentinel (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-shellie-zimmerman-dismissal-hearing-20130219,0,2485508.story)
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: leftwig on February 19, 2013, 11:19:45 AM
Any guesses on how the court will rule?  Does the special prosecutor have jurisdiction and are SZ's statements on their financial situation related to the investigation into the killing of TM?
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: leftwig on February 19, 2013, 01:00:31 PM
Defense's motion was denied, next court date April 17th I believe.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on February 19, 2013, 01:08:09 PM
Defense's motion was denied, next court date April 17th I believe.

I'll be surprised if the defense doesn't appeal it to the 5th DCA.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: leftwig on February 19, 2013, 02:02:53 PM
Yeah, I am not really sure how this matter pertains to the "death of TM".  The judge said the matter pertains to the man who is accused of killing TM, but no mention of how her statements pertain directly to TM's death.  I understand a special prosecutor is given a lot of leeway to not have to jump through hoops in their investigation/prosectution, but nothing related to SZ inhibits her ability to prosecute GZ nor does she offer any evidence as to what happened the night GZ shot TM.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on February 19, 2013, 02:30:05 PM
If the defense appeals to the 5th DCA and loses, it seems at least arguable that it would conflict with the 2nd DCA's decision in Hardy v. Rundle. If the state supreme court views it as a split, perhaps they'll hear the case. I'm just speculating, of course.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on February 19, 2013, 02:54:36 PM
Yeah, I am not really sure how this matter pertains to the "death of TM".

I think it depends on whether 'pertains' is interpreted as 'pertains directly', or as 'pertains directly or indirectly'.

I wish we had the full opinion in Hardy v. Rundle.

ETA: I don't actually know if there is an opinion that no one has found, or if the court just ruled without explanation. MJW's wording suggests the latter.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on February 19, 2013, 05:39:14 PM
I think it depends on whether 'pertains' is interpreted as 'pertains directly', or as 'pertains directly or indirectly'.

I wish we had the full opinion in Hardy v. Rundle.

ETA: I don't actually know if there is an opinion that no one has found, or if the court just ruled without explanation. MJW's wording suggests the latter.

That is, unfortunately, the full opinion. The arguments can be understood more fully from the state's Petition for Discretionary Review (http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/clerk/briefs/2003/1201-1400/03-1207_JurisIni.pdf) to the Florida supreme court. The defense filed a response (http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/clerk/briefs/2003/1201-1400/03-1207_JurisAns.pdf), but it was about whether the case merited review rather than the issues of the case. The court declined to review the DCA's decision.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on February 19, 2013, 06:21:37 PM
A footnote in the just-linked response in Hardy v. Rundle says:

Quote
In response to the Second District’s decision, Governor Bush subsequently issued another amended executive order expanding the authority of Special Prosecutor Rundle to include the charge of money laundering conspiracy. Thereafter, Special Prosecutor Rundle filed a fifth amended information under the authority of the newly amended executive order. In light of the changed circumstances, it is unclear why Special Prosecutor Rundle is expending the limited resources of this Court and the Attorney General’s office to review the decision of the Second District, which addressed only the prior amended executive order and the fourth amended information.

That seems to me to be the problem with the original motion in Shellie's case: any victory will likely be temporary, since it could be overcome with a new EO. There is a difference, though.  In Hardy v. Rundle, the local prosecutor had a conflict of interest which extended to the money laundering charge, so the EO to cover money laundering was justified. I don't see any reason the local prosecutor couldn't handle Shellie's perjury case, so I don't think there's a justification for assigning it to a special prosecutor.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on February 19, 2013, 06:45:33 PM
I don't see any reason the local prosecutor couldn't handle Shellie's perjury case, so I don't think there's a justification for assigning it to a special prosecutor.

Maybe the governor and the AG will reach out to Wolfinger, instilling in him dread at the prospect of even the appearance of a conflict of interest.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on February 19, 2013, 07:54:46 PM
Maybe the governor and the AG will reach out to Wolfinger, instilling in him dread at the prospect of even the appearance of a conflict of interest.

More likely, I think, is that the governor would just go ahead and issue the EO without worrying about such niceties as whether it's truly necessary.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on February 19, 2013, 08:20:37 PM
More likely, I think, is that the governor would just go ahead and issue the EO without worrying about such niceties as whether it's truly necessary.

Do you think the special prosecutor was necessary for the homicide case?
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on February 19, 2013, 09:18:49 PM
Do you think the special prosecutor was necessary for the homicide case?

In truth, no; but I think there was at least reasonable argument for a special prosecutor because of the widespread belief that the SPD did an incompetent investigation that was being covered up. I don't see how that carries over to Shellie Zimmerman's case. In fact, just the opposite. It appears to many -- including me -- that Shellie is being singled out for special treatment by the special prosecutor, both as a way of harassing George, and out of general vindictiveness.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on February 19, 2013, 09:47:54 PM
Except for homicide being more serious than perjury, I don't see the difference. If Wolfinger has some mysterious motive for protecting GZ, wouldn't the same motive lead him to protect his wife?
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on February 19, 2013, 09:56:33 PM
Except for homicide being more serious than perjury, I don't see the difference. If Wolfinger has some mysterious motive for protecting GZ, wouldn't the same motive lead him to protect his wife?

I don't recall saying Wolfinger had a mysterious motive for protecting GZ. I thought I said there was, to many, the appearance that the local prosecutor was covering up an incompetent investigation of the shooting. That's neither mysterious, nor does it apply to a perjury case which had nothing to do with the police investigation of the shooting.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on February 19, 2013, 10:56:54 PM
I don't recall saying Wolfinger had a mysterious motive for protecting GZ.

You're an intelligent person. When you allude to a 'widespread belief', I thought I could discuss the logic of that belief without having to make a point of saying that I wasn't ascribing it to you.

Do you think that, of the people who believe that Wolfinger has an improper motive for being reluctant to prosecute Zimmerman, the great majority also think they know what that motive is, and agree among themselves on what it is? That has not been my impression.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on February 19, 2013, 11:24:26 PM
Do you think that, of the people who believe that Wolfinger has an improper motive for being reluctant to prosecute Zimmerman, the great majority also think they know what that motive is, and agree among themselves on what it is? That has not been my impression.

I certainly can't say what everyone believes, and I had no intention of saying what you believe, but I think the only valid basis for the governor appointing a special prosecutor is in response to accusations that the local prosecutors were not pursuing the case vigorously in order to cover up a botched SPD investigation.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: DiwataMan on February 19, 2013, 11:58:07 PM
Is this a "Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case" or a Wolfinger thread?

Wolfinger's reasons why he ran:
http://www.sa18.state.fl.us/press/id/314

What he said a couple of days before:
http://www.sa18.state.fl.us/press/id/313

What he said a few days before that:
“At this time, I do not know exactly where the facts will lead, or what further investigative measures will be needed. But I do feel it would be appropriate to ask for the assistance of an FDLE investigator to collaborate with my office.”
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/family-slain-teen-hold-press-conference/nLTxw/

What he was dealing with:
"The computer systems at the Seminole County and Brevard County State Attorney's Offices, where Norm Wolfinger is lead prosecutor, were shut down on Thursday morning due to the overwhelming amount of emails by angry people demanding justice for Martin.

Officials said more than 100,000 emails put too much pressure on the server.

Supporters want Wolfinger to charge Zimmerman, the neighborhood vigilante, for the boy's killing."
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/state-attorneys-offices-overwhelmed-emails-demandi/nLTdJ/

and:

"I am outraged by the outright lies contained in the letter by Benjamin Crump to Deputy Assistant Attorney General Roy Austin dated April 2, 2012. I encourage the Justice Department to investigate and document that no such meeting or communication occurred. I have been encouraging those spreading the irresponsible rhetoric to stop and allow State Attorney Angela Corey to complete her work. Another falsehood distributed to the media does nothing to forward that process."
http://www.sa18.state.fl.us/press/id/315

There's a lot I could say about Wolfinger but I'll leave it at that for now.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: DiwataMan on February 20, 2013, 12:11:16 AM
Wanted to mention this as well. Wolfinger retired on Jan 7, 2013.

“Mr. Phil Archer was elected in 2012 and took office for his first term on January 8, 2013. Mr. Archer, a life-long resident of Brevard County, had already dedicated 28 years to protecting the citizens of Brevard and Seminole counties in his position as an Assistant State Attorney in the 18th Judicial Circuit.”
http://www.sa18.state.fl.us/page/history.html

April 20, 2012
"State Attorney Norman R. Wolfinger announced today that he would not be seeking re-election..."
http://www.sa18.state.fl.us/press/id/318
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: unitron on February 20, 2013, 02:32:46 AM
You're an intelligent person. When you allude to a 'widespread belief', I thought I could discuss the logic of that belief without having to make a point of saying that I wasn't ascribing it to you.

Do you think that, of the people who believe that Wolfinger has an improper motive for being reluctant to prosecute Zimmerman, the great majority also think they know what that motive is, and agree among themselves on what it is? That has not been my impression.

A belief doesn't actually need any logic behind it to be widespread, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: AJ on February 20, 2013, 05:01:45 AM
Read over the thread and I don't remember seeing these posted, so here you are if you haven't seen them yet:

Hearing (Shellie is in attendance):
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/74487272/Shellie-Zimmerman-Perjury

Post-Hearing Interview of Kelly Sims:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/74487178/Shellie-Zimmerman-s-attorney-speaks-out-about-perjury-case
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: DebFrmHell on February 20, 2013, 10:09:38 AM
Wanted to mention this as well. Wolfinger retired on Jan 7, 2013.

“Mr. Phil Archer was elected in 2012 and took office for his first term on January 8, 2013. Mr. Archer, a life-long resident of Brevard County, had already dedicated 28 years to protecting the citizens of Brevard and Seminole counties in his position as an Assistant State Attorney in the 18th Judicial Circuit.”
http://www.sa18.state.fl.us/page/history.html

April 20, 2012
"State Attorney Norman R. Wolfinger announced today that he would not be seeking re-election..."
http://www.sa18.state.fl.us/press/id/318

IMO, we should have a Wolfinger thread.  Would you put it in Court Matters, Police Investigations, Witness, or Evidence?  LOL on all the options.  I wonder why no one has ever interviewed him since Serino dropped his Capias with his office.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on February 20, 2013, 06:07:34 PM
Is this a "Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case" or a Wolfinger thread?

We were discussing why people might think Wolfinger isn't the person to prosecute the perjury case, or decide if it should be prosecuted.

If you want to discuss Wolfinger in general, I suggest a new thread.

ETA: I think it would go under Police Investigation.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on February 26, 2013, 11:35:19 AM
The Statement of Particulars has now been filed in Shellie's case. Unfortunately, I don't know of a link to it.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: Cylinder on April 18, 2013, 12:38:34 PM
Court delays perjury trial (http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/4/17/judge_delays_shellie.html)

Quote
The attorney for George Zimmerman’s wife was back in court Wednesday.
 
However, Shellie Zimmerman’s case will not head to trial until after George’s second-degree murder trial.
 
Shellie waived her right to appear in court. She did show up in court back in February when her attorney, Kelly Sims, tried to get her perjury charge dropped. But the judge refused to dismiss the case.
 
A state attorney charged Shellie with perjury after accusing her of lying about how much money the couple had, during a bond hearing for George in 2012.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on April 18, 2013, 01:59:44 PM
I noticed the detailed court information had April 16 entries for the stuff related to the motion to dismiss or petition for quo warranto. I wonder if the defense asked for reconsideration, and it was again rejected. The defense has 30 days to appeal a ruling to the DCA, so I thought they'd missed the chance. If they asked for reconsideration, then they can still appeal.

As I've said previously, I think any victory could be overcome by the governor amending the EO. On the other hand, as far as I can tell, the governor doesn't have the constitutional power to arbitrarily appoint special prosecutors. He has to have a good reason. Even though the reason for appointing a special prosecutor for George was somewhat ill-defied, the reason for appointing a special prosecutor for Shellie seems almost non-existent. Perhaps if the governor issued an EO to cover Shellie's case, it could be challenged as exceeding his constitutional authority.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on April 18, 2013, 02:48:56 PM
Looking again at the detailed case information, I think the somewhat confusing entry is:

04/16/2013    MOTN    MOTION TO DISMISS OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE PETITION FOR WRIT OF OUO WARRANTO RE: EXECUTIVE ORDER NUMBER 12-279

That seems like it's probably the original motion, revised to take into account the new EO.

I sure wish the motions were available to read.
Title: Re: Shellie Zimmerman's Perjury Case
Post by: MJW on May 10, 2013, 02:17:30 AM
On the other hand, as far as I can tell, the governor doesn't have the constitutional power to arbitrarily appoint special prosecutors. He has to have a good reason.

Sadly, Florida law does not seem to agree. On another thread, cboldt cites Finch v. Fitzpatrick (http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=4344503964540861172&hl=en&as_sdt=2,45), 254 So. 2d 203 (Fla. 1971), which seems to suggest the standard is "trust and don't verify" the governor's assertion that he has good reason to appoint a special prosecutor.