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State v. George Zimmerman (Pre-Trial) => Martin Family & Team Crump => Topic started by: Redbrow on August 06, 2012, 03:20:22 AM

Title: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: Redbrow on August 06, 2012, 03:20:22 AM
What is this all about? Did Sybrina violate conditions of a private settlement? Why isn't Tracy Martin named?

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flmdce/6:2012cv01185/274256/

Plaintiff:   Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America
Defendants:   The Retreat At Twin Lakes Homeowners' Association, Inc. and Sybrina D. Fulton
 
Case Number:   6:2012cv01185
Filed:   August 1, 2012
Nature of Suit:   Contract - Insurance
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: unitron on August 06, 2012, 04:24:33 AM
What is this all about? Did Sybrina violate conditions of a private settlement? Why isn't Tracy Martin named?

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flmdce/6:2012cv01185/274256/

Plaintiff:   Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America
Defendants:   The Retreat At Twin Lakes Homeowners' Association, Inc. and Sybrina D. Fulton
 
Case Number:   6:2012cv01185
Filed:   August 1, 2012
Nature of Suit:   Contract - Insurance

I'd guess, based on no specific knowledge whatsoever, that it's more about trying to get out of having to settle, or to re-coup what they paid out in a settlement.

Anybody know if Tracy had a life insurance policy on Trayvon?
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: whitecap333 on August 06, 2012, 05:10:55 AM
This has the look of a declaratory judgment action brought by the insurer of the HOA, perhaps over some coverage "issue."  Sybrina would be a necessary party to that action.
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: whitecap333 on August 06, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Just thinking out loud here, Travelers, in its role of insurer of the Association, may be trying to extricate itself from the case by "tendering its limits" to the court, or exhausting its limits by settlement with Fulton.  The Association would oppose this, in order to keep Travelers on the hook for defense costs.  Travelers may just be seeking a judicial determination of its rights under the policy.
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: whitecap333 on August 06, 2012, 05:22:12 AM
There is also the possibility that Travelers is trying to thwart a collusive settlement agreement between the HOA and Fulton.
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: whitecap333 on August 06, 2012, 06:12:32 AM
The more I think on it, Crump seems to have weaseled his way into Serino's brain at a very early stage of the investigation.  If you're trying to finesse the "intentional acts" exclusion of a liability insurance policy, you would, of course, try to frame the issue in terms of negligence theory,  You might, by way of example, stress that the event setting the dominoes to falling was "avoidable," or could otherwise have been "defused."
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: Cylinder on August 06, 2012, 06:31:13 AM
http://www.scribd.com/doc/102137336/Petition-for-Declaratory-Relief

Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: unitron on August 06, 2012, 07:45:59 AM
http://www.scribd.com/doc/102137336/Petition-for-Declaratory-Relief

How does a policy issued in March 2012 obligate them in any way to pay out for something that happened in February?

Is it because Fulton didn't file suit until after the policy was issued?

That's the only thing I can think of, but that doesn't make sense, either.

Why would an insurance company write a policy that would obligate them to pay a claim based on something that happened before the issuance of the policy?

Wouldn't whoever sold them the policy have known they had this hanging over them?
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: whitecap333 on August 06, 2012, 07:47:56 AM
The plot thickens.  There must be an "occurrence" based General Liability policy involved here, which may or may not have been issued by Travelers.
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: whitecap333 on August 06, 2012, 07:52:37 AM
Uni, the policy involved in the "DJ" action is a "claims-made" policy.  Such policies typically cover injuries that happened before policy inception.  Usually, however, they contain language removing coverage for events likely to result in claims.  Too many variables here for intelligent speculation. 
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: FromBelow on August 06, 2012, 01:59:15 PM
I wonder if there might be a legal fight between the HOA and the insurance company if the insurance company doesn't pay out and the HOA gets sued.
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: whitecap333 on August 06, 2012, 04:49:21 PM
Insurers don't always "pay out."  Sometimes they choose to defend litigation against the policyholder.  Here, the defense would be that Trayvon was the author of his own misfortune.
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: TalkLeft on August 06, 2012, 05:32:02 PM
Here's the policy (http://www.scribd.com/doc/102137339/Plaintiff-Exhibit-A) that was attached as an exhibit to the petition for declaratory relief.

It's a "claims made" policy,  but this is so far outside my field that I am not going to even try to weigh in.


Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: jupchurch on August 06, 2012, 07:34:45 PM
What is the liability of the individual homeowners at 1211  and 1221 Twin Trees? I looked at the plat map and it looks like the actual property where the altercation occurred belongs to them.
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on August 06, 2012, 07:42:04 PM

While we're at it, can W-18 get compensation for her emotional suffering?

I think some of the people who listened to her call would like to join in a class action suit.
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: whitecap333 on August 06, 2012, 07:57:03 PM
Ordinarily, a major insurer would not issue a D&O policy except as part of a package including a General Liability policy, one of the reasons being to avoid spats with other insurers about which of the two forms a loss falls under.  The former would generally be "claims-made" and the latter "occurrence" based.  The underwriters endeavor to eliminate overlapping coverage between the two forms.  One way this is done is to remove coverage for "bodily injury" from the D&O form, and limit coverage to "bodily injury and property damage" under the GL form.  Coverage for this event would be provided, in the first instance, by the prior "occurrence" based GL policy.  It is far more likely than not that the prior coverage was also issued by Travelers.  What Crump would like to do, obviously, is "stack" the policy limits of the D&O and GL forms to double the potential recovery.  This "Dec Action" does not necessarily mean that Travelers will not aggressively defend the suit, when it is filed. 
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: DebFrmHell on August 06, 2012, 08:24:58 PM
What is the liability of the individual homeowners at 1211  and 1221 Twin Trees? I looked at the plat map and it looks like the actual property where the altercation occurred belongs to them.

Other than the patios, I suspect that all sidewalks and grassy areas are covered by the liability insurance held by the Condo Association.  Those are common areas.   I have owned two condos, one of them much like the one in Sanford only mine was in Jacksonville.  My liabilty and contents covered basically everything within the sheet rock and the front door.   

I am confused on the policy for the D & O.  It sounds like an additional policy that covers Directors, Officers employees of the HOA only in the event of a lawsuit and is separate from structural or general liability.

Way out of my league....
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: whitecap333 on August 06, 2012, 09:05:28 PM
Ordinarily, in a situation like this, any civil action would be stayed pending resolution of the criminal proceeding.  Probably wheels within wheels whirring here.  Crump has probably made demand to settle within the limits of coverage, to set the insurer up for a judgment in excess of the limits.  That's one reason the underwriters might be trying to get a judicial determination of their liability, if any, under the D&O policy.  Not sure how the court will manage that, in the absence of a complaint.  But I've probably got it all wrong--too many unknown variables.
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: FromBelow on August 06, 2012, 09:13:12 PM
Crump has probably made demand to settle within the limits of coverage, to set the insurer up for a judgment in excess of the limits.

I was wondering about that. 1 million isn't a lot for Crump nowadays. He's into multi-million dollar settlements.
Title: Townhouses vs. Condos
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on August 06, 2012, 10:02:55 PM

Other than the patios, I suspect that all sidewalks and grassy areas are covered by the liability insurance held by the Condo Association.  Those are common areas.   I have owned two condos, one of them much like the one in Sanford only mine was in Jacksonville.  My liabilty and contents covered basically everything within the sheet rock and the front door.   

I think that is the reason the units are called 'townhouses' (or 'townhomes') as opposed to 'condominiums'. The sidewalks are common, but the lawns are attached to the units.
Title: Re: Townhouses vs. Condos
Post by: DebFrmHell on August 07, 2012, 03:07:51 AM
I think that is the reason the units are called 'townhouses' (or 'townhomes') as opposed to 'condominiums'. The sidewalks are common, but the lawns are attached to the units.

I was looking over the specs for a townhouse that is for sale and the acreage listed is .07 so I agree with you that the owners have the yard.  I also looked at a zoning map for verification.

There is one thing that caught my attention though and that is that there is a monthly HOA fee of $130-148 per month, most likely based on the size of the unit.  Before I bought my condo, I looked at townhouses in a gated community that was very similar to the one at TRATL.  They had an association fee also but it was billed yearly for roughly the same amount as the monthly at The Retreat.

((Even detached single family homes in these kind of communities can be sold as a condo.  While I was learning more, what I learned best is "I got no idea!"))
Title: Re: Sybrina Fulton and Twin Lakes HOA being sued by insurance co?
Post by: whitecap333 on August 07, 2012, 04:11:21 PM
As an afterthought, perhaps I should mention that the sum mentioned in the declaratory judgment suit, $75,000, is just to satisfy the minimum jurisdictional requirements of the court.  It has no other significance.