TalkLeft Discussion Forums

State v. George Zimmerman (Pre-Trial) => Twin Lakes Neighborhood => Topic started by: nomatter_nevermind on August 31, 2012, 07:52:42 AM

Title: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on August 31, 2012, 07:52:42 AM
I have found the street sign (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/7900101294/in/set-72157630837258338) that Zimmerman claimed to be searching for, though he never took a step in its direction.

The street sign is mounted on top of a stop sign, which seems to customary at The Retreat at Twin Lakes. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/sets/72157630837258338/with/7900101294/)
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: leftwig on August 31, 2012, 01:11:41 PM
ISn't this diagonally on the opposite side of the complex? 
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on August 31, 2012, 01:30:14 PM
ISn't this diagonally on the opposite side of the complex?

No.

I think you are confused because I had to rotate the view so the sign would be visible. The top is West. North is on the right.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: MJW on August 31, 2012, 04:35:43 PM
I don't understand the point you seem so excited about. The sign's at the other end of the block from the dog path. Is there something Zimmerman said that referenced that particular sign? Is so, could you quote it so we know what you're talking about.  Also, it would be helpful to show a wider angle so the location of the sign is in context.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: MJW on August 31, 2012, 04:40:24 PM
No.

I think you are confused because I had to rotate the view so the sign would be visible. The top is West. North is on the right.

Why would rotating the picture make the sign disappear?
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: DebFrmHell on August 31, 2012, 06:07:08 PM
Long Oak is near the south end of the complex.  I think that MJW is right.  If you follow the bend east on Twin Trees you will reach the back entrance.   Just IMO, of course.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: unitron on August 31, 2012, 06:28:04 PM
Did Zimmerman ever say anything about looking for a street sign?

The way I remember it, he didn't know the name of TTL, so he was going over to RVC, the name of which he did know, to get a house number to put with the street name which he already knew.

This seems to be the explanation he wishes to offer for having gotten out of the truck in the first place.

Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: DebFrmHell on August 31, 2012, 06:54:44 PM
Did Zimmerman ever say anything about looking for a street sign?

The way I remember it, he didn't know the name of TTL, so he was going over to RVC, the name of which he did know, to get a house number to put with the street name which he already knew.

This seems to be the explanation he wishes to offer for having gotten out of the truck in the first place.

Funny that.  I thought it was his second reason.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 01, 2012, 01:14:32 AM
The sign's at the other end of the block from the dog path.

That section of TTL is parallel to the dog walk, on the other side of the row of buildings. It's closer to the dog walk than the place Zimmerman claims to have left his truck.

From the sign itself to the southern end of the dog walk, is a walk of about 150 feet, around the southern end of the row of buildings.

Quote
Is there something Zimmerman said that referenced that particular sign?

The sign identifies Twin Trees Lane. It's close to the dog walk Martin was presumably last seen headed down, and to the back entrance Zimmerman said Martin was headed toward. Zimmerman's vehicle was pointed in the direction he would need to drive to get to where he could see it.

The sign at TTL and RVC, near the clubhouse and the main entrance, is closer to where Martin was presumably last seen. (See here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/7683846310/in/set-72157630837258338) and here. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/7899890060/in/set-72157630837258338)) It's about 450 feet, while the one at Long Oak Way is about 500 feet. But it's arguably further from the overall scene of the action, and Zimmerman would have to make a U-turn to drive back to it, assuming he was telling the truth about the direction he parked.

In any case, Zimmerman presumably knew where that street sign was. He claimed to have just driven past it.

If Zimmerman wanted to give the police an address where his truck was parked, which was also close to where he claims to have last seen Martin, he could have done it without getting out of the truck. He could have driven around the bend of TTL to where he could see the street sign at Long Oak Way. Then he could have turned around, driven back and parked in front of 1211 or 1221.

Of course this is all fantasy. The dispatcher didn't ask Zimmerman where his truck was parked until almost the end of the phone call. Zimmerman had left the truck, agreed not to follow Martin, said he wanted to meet the police, and given directions to the truck, before the dispatcher asked for the address the truck was parked. By Zimmerman's account he was on RVC by this time, having gone there looking for the address he had not yet been asked for.

Quote
Also, it would be helpful to show a wider angle so the location of the sign is in context.

It's harder to see the sign at less than maximum zoom.

How hard is it to find the intersection of Twin Trees Lane and Long Oak Way? As I am not the first to observe, the neighborhood only has three streets.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 01, 2012, 01:22:48 AM
Why would rotating the picture make the sign disappear?

It's not the 'picture' that's rotated. It's the camera view.

When I first posted I said 'image'. Then I realized that was wrong, and edited the comment to replace 'image' with 'view'.

Looking north, the stop sign is edge on. I don't know if that makes the street sign on top of it literally invisible, but it makes it harder to find.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 01, 2012, 01:52:18 AM
Long Oak is near the south end of the complex. . . . If you follow the bend east on Twin Trees you will reach the back entrance. 

Corrrect.

Quote
I think that MJW is right.

I'm sure MJW is right about many things. I'm not sure what you mean here.

If you mean 'at the other end of the block from the dog path', that's not correct. I discussed it in my response to MJW.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 01, 2012, 02:25:28 AM
Why would rotating the picture make the sign disappear?
It's not the 'picture' that's rotated. It's the camera view.

Sorry, I'm being slow. There's no reason I can't rotate the image (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/7904935310/in/photostream) to put north at the top.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: MJW on September 01, 2012, 02:46:40 AM
That section of TTL is parallel to the dog walk, on the other side of the row of buildings. It's closer to the dog walk than the place Zimmerman claims to have left his truck.

I should have said cut-through. The path Zimmerman took from TTL to RVC.

Quote
-- A bunch of stuff, the  point of which I can't quite discern. --

You claimed it was "the street sign that Zimmerman claimed to be searching for." So far, you've convinced me it's a sign. eureka
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 01, 2012, 04:28:02 AM
Did Zimmerman ever say anything about looking for a street sign?

2/26-1, 12:32-40
Quote
Zimmerman: So I got out of my car to look for a street sign and to see if I could see where he cut through so that I could tell the police [crosstalk].

2-26W (p. 16) (http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Pages-from-Police-Reports-without-statements-redacted.pdf)
Quote
The dispatcher once again asked me for my exact location. I could not remember the name of the street so I got out of my car to look for a street sign.

2/26-2, 4:16-36
Quote
Singleton: So you're trying to figure out what street you're on. OK. So you see him go here. And then, so what do you do, to-?

Zimmerman: I got out of my vehicle to look at this house's address, and see if there was a sign there.

Singleton: OK.

Zimmerman: And there wasn't.

Singleton: OK.

Zimmerman: So I walked through the dog walk to see if there was a sign here, or an address that I could make out easier.

2/27R, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qfkRTC5gF4) 4:31-41
Quote
Zimmerman: And again they asked me where he went and what direction he went in. And I said "I don't know." And then I thought to get out and look for a street sign.

Sgt. Smith: Right.

Zimmerman: So I got out of my car, and I started walking.

2-27/R, 5:00-23
Quote
Zimmerman: I was [unintelligible] phone with non-emergency, and I started walking-

Sgt. Smith: OK.

Zimmerman: - down this way. And because I didn't see a street sign here, but I knew if I went straight through, that that's Retreat View Circle, and I could give him an address, because he said "Just give me the address of the house you're in front of." And there's no address, because these are the back of the houses.

2/27V, (http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/statements/video_interview_cvsa_0227.asf) 28:40-29:16, 6:47:17-53
Quote
Zimmerman: And I got out of my car to look for a street sign, so I could at least tell them what street I was on. And, there was no street sign, and I couldn't make out the house in front of me because there was a big pickup truck there. So, I knew if I, I saw him walk through the cut-through and then make a right, behind other houses. I knew if I went straight, and I didn't cut through where he went, that was the street that I lived on, Retreat View Circle. And I knew if I got to that street, I could tell them the exact house number, and the street that I was at.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: Lousy1 on September 01, 2012, 06:42:20 AM
I also fail to see any significance regarding the distant sign. Zimmerman is pretty clear that he is looking for a valid address ( street and house number) . It seems he took a reasonable route to find that information. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 01, 2012, 07:39:48 AM
I also fail to see any significance regarding the distant sign.

The sign is 'distant' because Zimmerman chose to get out of, and remain out of, his vehicle. In the truck it would take him seconds to drive within viewing distance of the sign.

Quote
Zimmerman is pretty clear that he is looking for a valid address (street and house number) .

Response (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2037.msg102319.html#msg102319) on George as a Witness thread.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: AghastInFL on September 01, 2012, 08:06:30 AM

Looking north, the stop sign is edge on. I don't know if that makes the street sign on top of it literally invisible, but it makes it harder to find.
Of course this is exactly why it could not be read from GZ's position, if he could read the sign at all inside or outside of his vehicle, he would have read Long Oak Way which would have offered no help for identifying his location.

Why do so many anti-GZ have such trouble accepting the obvious? George got out of the vehicle to determine which direction TM ran, as he stated numerous times he continued along the path to obtain an address from the RVC building closest to the entry of the crosswalk... why? again simple; the police were instructed to call upon their arrival, George had a HABIT of telling arriving police which of the two gates to use for entry... (check his old calls) armed with his physical location and the address from the RVC side of the crosswalk arriving police would come to him.
I believe GZ also walked through admittedly or not with the express purpose to look and see if TM ran out of the complex through the south gate.
None of the above is illegal, wrong, dangerous nor places either individual in danger.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: FromBelow on September 01, 2012, 08:27:58 AM
The sign is 'distant' because Zimmerman chose to get out of, and remain out of, his vehicle. In the truck it would take him seconds to drive within viewing distance of the sign.

Are people still stuck on the red herring that GZ getting out of his truck makes him the aggressor? Cite the Florida law that says getting out of your truck when a young man wearing a hoodie and having skittles and tea is around is illegal.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: Jack203 on September 01, 2012, 08:31:23 AM

Why do so many anti-GZ have such trouble accepting the obvious? George got out of the vehicle to determine which direction TM ran, as he stated numerous times he continued along the path to obtain an address from the RVC building closest to the entry of the crosswalk... why? again simple; the police were instructed to call upon their arrival, George had a HABIT of telling arriving police which of the two gates to use for entry... (check his old calls) armed with his physical location and the address from the RVC side of the crosswalk arriving police would come to him.
I believe GZ also walked through admittedly or not with the express purpose to look and see if TM ran out of the complex through the south gate.
None of the above is illegal, wrong, dangerous nor places either individual in danger.

Exactly.  And why are they hung up on this?  Because they have little to nothing else.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: AghastInFL on September 01, 2012, 08:37:43 AM
I apologize for the redundant statement in my final sentence.
 :-[*proofread* one day I will learn... :-[
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: Lousy1 on September 01, 2012, 11:23:47 AM
The sign is 'distant' because Zimmerman chose to get out of, and remain out of, his vehicle. In the truck it would take him seconds to drive within viewing distance of the sign.

Response (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2037.msg102319.html#msg102319) on George as a Witness thread.

That's not a logical course of action anymore than going home to await the police or having the police meet him at the elsewhere than the T. Zimmerman is in a position to physically point out the last known position and direction of the suspect. Under ideal conditions, he is also able to report that the suspect did not return.

Even if GZ was aware of the sign (which is not established) why would he walk all the way back to his truck; turn it around;  drive to a sign ; drive back; get out to see a house number and then wait for police. Much easier to walk the few extra feet to Retreat View Circle and note a house address.

Do you think he should have driven to the 7-11 and bought a map? Wouldn't he be taking a risk based on the evidence of the seedy characters who hang there?
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: unitron on September 01, 2012, 11:48:27 AM
2/26-1, 12:32-40
2-26W (p. 16) (http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Pages-from-Police-Reports-without-statements-redacted.pdf)
2/26-2, 4:16-36
2/27R, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qfkRTC5gF4) 4:31-41
2-27/R, 5:00-23
2/27V, (http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/statements/video_interview_cvsa_0227.asf) 28:40-29:16, 6:47:17-53

And once again Zimmerman's "after-action reports" seem to come from a different person from the one on the phone with the police that night.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: MJW on September 01, 2012, 01:32:21 PM
The sign is 'distant' because Zimmerman chose to get out of, and remain out of, his vehicle. In the truck it would take him seconds to drive within viewing distance of the sign.

So if Zimmerman did something else and went somewhere else, he'd have been right next to the sign.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: unitron on September 01, 2012, 01:53:42 PM
So if Zimmerman did something else and went somewhere else, he'd have been right next to the sign.

Only if he went to a particular somewhere else.

Otherwise he might have wound up right next to one of the other signs.

 ;)
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: RickyJim on September 01, 2012, 05:27:31 PM
Much easier to walk the few extra feet to Retreat View Circle and note a house address.

He never got that house number, right?  He never called back to give it to the dispatcher.  With his terrible short term memory, he would have had to write it down on a piece of paper or enter it as a note to himself on his cellphone, if he intended to give it when the cops called him back.  He never mentioned doing that.  He apparently decided not to get the number and headed back to his car.  Why?  Or did he make up the looking for a number story to justify not heading back to the car right away?  Apparently Serino and Singleton weren't quick thinking enough to ask him what number he got and what did he do with it.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: Lousy1 on September 01, 2012, 05:50:28 PM
He never got that house number, right?  He never called back to give it to the dispatcher.  With his terrible short term memory, he would have had to write it down on a piece of paper or enter it as a note to himself on his cellphone, if he intended to give it when the cops called him back.  He never mentioned doing that.  He apparently decided not to get the number and headed back to his car.  Why?  Or did he make up the looking for a number story to justify not heading back to the car right away?  Apparently Serino and Singleton weren't quick thinking enough to ask him what number he got and what did he do with it.


Your making this up. You don't know if he got the house number and its your 'strained,"opinion about the memory requiring a note.
You can't assume because something wasn't mentioned it didn't happen
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: RickyJim on September 01, 2012, 06:21:02 PM

Your making this up. You don't know if he got the house number and its your 'strained,"opinion about the memory requiring a note.
You can't assume because something wasn't mentioned it didn't happen

He would remember 2861 RVC?  Did any police report mention he had pen and paper on him?  Right after I wrote my post I wrote down what I thought your reply would be and almost got it word for word.  I wish I could prove that.   ;D
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: annoyedbeyond on September 01, 2012, 06:46:07 PM
He would remember 2861 RVC?  Did any police report mention he had pen and paper on him?  Right after I wrote my post I wrote down what I thought your reply would be and almost got it word for word.  I wish I could prove that.   ;D


you're a wonderfully inventive critter.

Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: Lousy1 on September 01, 2012, 07:22:32 PM
He would remember 2861 RVC?  Did any police report mention he had pen and paper on him?  Right after I wrote my post I wrote down what I thought your reply would be and almost got it word for word.  I wish I could prove that.   ;D

I think he would remember that address. It was suddenly important and had his attention. He had ADHD  - it is not retardation but an tendency to lose focus.
Let's ask Deb who seems to have at least a partially  kindred spirit.

 I knew when I replied to your rather foolish post that your response would be ad hominem rather than factual - if only because you cannot defend portraying an unsupported opinion as a fact. I didn't need to write it down  and put it under a double secret lock.

You still haven't explained your post and what evidence ( if any) you used to invent your conjectures.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: RickyJim on September 01, 2012, 09:48:11 PM
You still haven't explained your post and what evidence ( if any) you used to invent your conjectures.

My last two posts gave several reasons why I seriously doubt Zimmerman ever got an address and think he manufactured that reason later.  Another one is that he says he was at RVC while on the phone with Sean the dispatcher.  If he went there to get an address, why didn't he give it to Sean before hanging up?  Is there anything at all you think Zimmerman might have fibbed about that evening?  ???
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: Lousy1 on September 01, 2012, 10:05:01 PM
My last two posts gave several reasons why I seriously doubt Zimmerman ever got an address and think he manufactured that reason later.  Another one is that he says he was at RVC while on the phone with Sean the dispatcher.  If he went there to get an address, why didn't he give it to Sean before hanging up?  Is there anything at all you think Zimmerman might have fibbed about that evening?  ???

There are several things I think you fibbed about. Particularly GZ's ability to memorize you just made that up.
 GZ is an  eyewitness. Unless you have something more than your speculation. I have to go with him.

How do you know that GZ didn't get the number after agreeing to have the police call him when they arrived. He may have subsequently decided that it would be easier to vector them in via the club house since a reasonable time for active pursuit of a fleeing suspect ( by the police ) was already elapsed.

He wasn't asked and he didn't volunteer the details. Perhaps George and the police both realized that it's not particularly relevant to the events of that evening.

I there any opportunity to slander GZ that you have missed?



Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: leftwig on September 02, 2012, 06:52:09 AM
I don't know whether GZ ever got an address.  The police in interviews never asked him what address he got, so I wouldn't make an assumption because he never mentioned one in an interview that he didn't get one.  Could be he got one and forgot, could be he remembered but never mentioned the exact address since he wasn't asked, or could be he never got one.

I do agree with the point that since he didn't give an address to the dispatcher that he never got an address while he was on the phone.  I think its more likely GZ was standing at the 'T" ad not at RVC as he finished his conversation with the dispatcher.  It seems to me you can hear him trying to get his flashlight to work and tapping it on something meta (doggie station?)l and if he was going to stop somewhere to try and regain a visual of TM while talking with the dispatcher, it most likely would be where he last saw him leave from.  I personally don't think his main reason for exiting his truck was to get an address.  I think it was initially to see where TM went in response to "let us know if he does anything" and "which way did he run".  I think he thought of going to RVC to get an address after the dispatcher mentioned meeting by the mailbox area and about that point GZ saw RVC and thought he could get an address and then asked the dispatcher to have police call him. 

While its not completely clear exactly where GZ was and at what time, I think its abundantly clear he wasn't chasing after or even following someone during the last half of the NEN call.  What he did between the end of the NEN and coming face to face with TM is anyone's guess, but the evidence does seem to back that he was at the top of the 'T' when the confrontation occurred.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 04, 2012, 05:58:51 AM
GZ's ability to memorize you just made that up.

2/29-1, 24:44-48
Quote
Zimmerman: To be honest with you, I have a bad memory anyway.

2/29-1, 25:34-38
Quote
Zimmerman: I just have a terrible memory.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 04, 2012, 06:10:04 AM
Are people still stuck on the red herring that GZ getting out of his truck makes him the aggressor?

Some are, but I'm not. It's you who are bringing in a red herring fallacy.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 04, 2012, 06:27:15 AM
So if Zimmerman did something else and went somewhere else, he'd have been right next to the sign.

Exactly. Zimmerman would have found a street sign if he had been looking for one, as he falsely claimed.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: leftwig on September 04, 2012, 06:43:46 AM
Exactly. Zimmerman would have found a street sign if he had been looking for one, as he falsely claimed.

Statement of opinion obviously.  The sign you are referencing is several hundred yards from where he was located and it seems he never made it near that location. 

Its clear that GZ's main focus once calling NEN was to keep his eye on TM until police arrived.  Getting an address could help police find him when they got there, so I tend to believe his focus on the address during the NEN and in interviews afterwards was that it was an important detail in helping police find TM.  I tend to doubt getting an address/street sign was the catalyst for him exiting his vehicle when he did, but I don't discount how important he may have felt getting an address was and that RVC was closer to his vehicle than the sign at the end of TTL.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: annoyedbeyond on September 04, 2012, 07:11:58 AM
Exactly. Zimmerman would have found a street sign if he had been looking for one, as in my opinion he falsely claimed.

Fixed it for you.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: annoyedbeyond on September 04, 2012, 07:13:55 AM
Statement of opinion obviously.  The sign you are referencing is several hundred yards from where he was located and it seems he never made it near that location. 

Its clear that GZ's main focus once calling NEN was to keep his eye on TM until police arrived.  Getting an address could help police find him when they got there, so I tend to believe his focus on the address during the NEN and in interviews afterwards was that it was an important detail in helping police find TM.  I tend to doubt getting an address/street sign was the catalyst for him exiting his vehicle when he did, but I don't discount how important he may have felt getting an address was and that RVC was closer to his vehicle than the sign at the end of TTL.

That's a good point.

Why don't we ask NMNM, since he's the resident expert (well, one of them) on what GZ was thinking at each milimoment of the whole evening, why GZ would bother to not look for a street sign when he said he was trying to look for a street sign, and when he clearly wanted the cops to arrive because he clearly asked about the cops arrival more than once.

Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: annoyedbeyond on September 04, 2012, 07:15:41 AM
2/29-1, 24:44-48
2/29-1, 25:34-38

World of difference, skippy, between needing a pen and paper to remember something for a minute or two and recalling exact details of something later on.

Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 04, 2012, 08:29:26 AM
Even if GZ was aware of the sign

That the sign is actually there is just a vivid illustration of a point that I have made before.

Zimmerman's claim to have gotten out of his truck to 'look for a street sign' is absurd on its face. A person looking for a street sign doesn't get out of his vehicle at a bend in the street. He drives to the next intersection.

Quote
why would he walk all the way back to his truck

Because he wanted to meet the police at his truck. That's one point Zimmerman was quite consistent about.

Why would Zimmerman want to stand in the rain while waiting for the police?

Quote
turn it around

Zimmerman's truck was already pointed in the right direction. He would just have to drive around the bend. After reading the sign he would have had an intersection to turn around in.

Quote
drive to a sign

That sign would have given him the name of Twin Trees Lane, the street whose name he said he wanted and on which his truck was located.

Quote
get out to see a house number

I don't see why he couldn't read a house number from inside his truck.

Quote
Much easier to walk the few extra feet to Retreat View Circle and note a house address.

Zimmerman said that he was looking for a street sign from the moment he got out of his truck.

In the reenactment Zimmerman was about 100 feet west of RVC when he said he looked down the dog walk and didn't see Martin.

Zimmerman said he started returning to his truck after reaching RVC, so he wasn't saving any walking distance with what would have been a 200 foot round trip.

What would be the point of Zimmerman giving the police an address on RVC, if he was going back to his truck to meet them there? 
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 04, 2012, 09:34:51 AM
The sign you are referencing is several hundred yards from where he was located

More like 150 yards.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: leftwig on September 04, 2012, 10:49:14 AM
More like 150 yards.

So roughly twice the distance that TM was from BG's place when GZ lost sight of him running/skipping  towards his home?
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 04, 2012, 11:12:21 AM
The sign you are referencing is several hundred yards from where he was located and it seems he never made it near that location.
More like 150 yards.
So roughly twice the distance that TM was from BG's place when GZ lost sight of him running/skipping towards his home?

That would be at least 120 yards.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: leftwig on September 04, 2012, 01:20:46 PM
More like 150 yards.

So roughly twice the distance that TM was from BG's place when GZ lost sight of him running/skipping towards his home?


That would be at least 120 yards.

I don't think we are working off the same assumptions.  How far is it from the back of BG's to TM's body? 
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 04, 2012, 01:48:23 PM
I don't think we are working off the same assumptions. 

Look. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/7931970568/in/photostream)
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: leftwig on September 05, 2012, 06:35:07 AM
I stand corrected.  TM was only about 30 or so yards closer to home when GZ saw him take off, than GZ was to the street sign.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: AghastInFL on September 05, 2012, 07:15:11 AM
That the sign is actually there is just a vivid illustration of a point that... <snip> is absurd on its face. <snip>
I took the liberty to reduce the comment to its most fundamental point.
http://hiss.in/41/much-ado-about-nothing-idiom-meaning-and-definition/ (http://hiss.in/41/much-ado-about-nothing-idiom-meaning-and-definition/)
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: amateur on September 05, 2012, 08:20:35 AM

Zimmerman's truck was already pointed in the right direction. He would just have to drive around the bend. After reading the sign he would have had an intersection to turn around in.
 
That sign would have given him the name of Twin Trees Lane, the street whose name he said he wanted and on which his truck was located.

Not only that, but he could have then continued around the next bend and observed the dog walk from the other end, in his truck. 
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on September 05, 2012, 08:40:04 AM
Not only that, but he could have then continued around the next bend and observed the dog walk from the other end, in his truck.

And the back entrance.
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on September 05, 2012, 08:46:07 AM
Are you people people insinuating that Z never went any farther than the T? :o
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: leftwig on September 05, 2012, 09:56:03 AM
Are you people people insinuating that Z never went any farther than the T? :o

Is there any evidence GZ went any  further south than the northern part of TTL or the 'T'?
Title: Re: EUREKA!
Post by: turbo6 on September 16, 2012, 02:05:22 PM
Collectively, it seems like plausible reasoning for him to exit the vehicle. The dispatcher himself even said "let me know if he does anything else". TM ran, had a considering jump on him and was quickly out of sight. Zimmerman likely thought, at best he may get a glace at him bolting out of the back gate. Regardless, getting an idea if he was staying inside or exiting the complex, while obtaining an close by address would have been fairly beneficial to police.

Its unknown if he truly was able to see if Martin in fact went down the T, or straight down the cut thru and went onto RVC. Or perhaps he did see Martin cut down the T, and as he passed by and didn't see him, assumed he may have managed to then get back onto RVC.

I think once Zimmerman passed the T and peeked over to RVC and saw nothing, he was a bit surprised and unnerved based on him not wanting to give personal information to the dispatcher because he didn't know where Trayvon was.

Zimmerman had the mindset from the start that based on the break ins prior, Trayvon could have very well been a burglar. Perhaps a bold one, coming up to the truck and trying to spook him. However once he ran, that clearly came off as an admission of guilt. Most anyone viewing someone them deem suspicious, watching them run off would likely reinforce that notion.

Besides, the likelihood of a property thief actually fleeing then deciding to come back and confront the person is slim. I can't say the last time I recall that happening. I think GZ knew that as he left the truck, however once he completely lost sight of Martin he probably felt a little uneasy, and wondered if this was something other than a residential thief.