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George Zimmerman Trial Coverage => Daily Trial Proceedings => Topic started by: TalkLeft on June 23, 2013, 06:56:06 PM

Title: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: TalkLeft on June 23, 2013, 06:56:06 PM
Opening statements  begin at 9:00 am. Here are links to live video feeds (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2493.0.html). 

Don West is expected to deliver the defense opening.

You can use this thread both for live updates and your thoughts.

I will also put up a thread for Day 1 Trial Testimony and Proceedings, to cover events after the openings. There will be a new thread for each day.

Each witness of any significance can also have a thread in the witness section for more in-depth analysis. For example, if a witness on Day 3 contradicts a witness on Day 1, that can be explored in the witness thread as opposed to adding to the Day 1 thread. The point of this to have a chronological record of what happens each day for later reference that is easy to navigate when you are looking for something specific that happened.  I am also going to start a thread called "Trial Expectations" where you can discuss what you think will happen ahead of time (like tonight with opening arguments or opinions on which witnesses will or will not be called and predictions of each side's strategy.)

If you have suggestions for additional topics or threads, please put them in forum suggestions.

Please don't start commenting in this thread until shortly before the hearing (parties arriving for court, etc.)
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 06:40:51 AM
Kathi Belich (WFTV) tweeted that TM's family and Crump talked to the press for a few minutes. Usual stuff.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 06:45:34 AM
8:45 AM

ClickOrlando (http://www.clickorlando.com/news/watchchat-live-jury-selection-begins-in-zimmerman-trial/-/1637132/20483208/-/33hay6/-/index.html) (WKMG 6) is showing the seal.

WFTV 9 (http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/) is showing other news.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 06:48:26 AM
Rene Stutzman tweeted that 24 spectators, 'a full house', were headed to the courtroom.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:01:16 AM
Belich and Stutzman have been tweeting arrivals.

Sanford police chief and sheriff, GZ, TM's parents, Corey, Shellie, Robert Sr., GZ's mom.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:04:49 AM
Court in session.

Nelson is excluding witnesses. O'Mara asking that GZ's family be excepted.

Bernie says the rule is only victim's family.

O'Mara says court has discretion.

Nelson says they can come in after state's case.

Nelson said Crump out too.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:05:28 AM
Bernie arguing for Crump to stay.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:06:50 AM
Nelson is reading rules on witness sequestration.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:08:04 AM
O'Mara arguing for Crump exclusion.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:09:33 AM
O'Mara is citing Crump's press conferences as a reason his presence in court will be 'prejudicial', which is the standard for excluding him despite his being a representative of TM.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:10:18 AM
Now O'Mara is arguing that Crump is a 'substantive witness'.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:11:04 AM
Nelson asked Crump and TM family members under subpoena to leave. I think they may have already left.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:11:55 AM
Mantei is talking about some problem with an evidence exhibit.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:13:07 AM
It is something O'Mara wants to use a visual aid. Mantei wants to look at it.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:14:15 AM
Mantei approved the item.

Guy will do opening.

West is talking about res gestae statements.

Nelson hasn't read them yet.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:15:34 AM
Opening statements postponed for hearing on hearsay statements, because West wants to use them in opening.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:18:23 AM
It looks like Bernie, and probably Nelson, are reading the motion on the hearsay. These are GZ's statements to W-13 and Officer Tim Smith.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:19:05 AM
Nelson is asking how long after shooting Smith arrived.

Bernies says 'within minutes'.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:19:35 AM
Bernie said W-13 said GZ was calm.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:20:18 AM
Nelson say statements to W-13 come in. Judgment reserved for statements to Smith.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:20:42 AM
West arguing for statements to Smith.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:21:27 AM
West is citing case law.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:22:21 AM
Nelson agreed to allow statements to Smith.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: cboldt on June 24, 2013, 07:22:31 AM
West's motion is granted on all utterances.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:23:22 AM
Jury coming in.

Nelson called sidebar 'for one brief moment.'
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
Nelson mentioned at the start she would be reading instructions to jury, asked O'Mara if he wanted to include 'right to remain silent'. He did.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:25:20 AM
They keep the camera on GZ instead of panning around the room so we can see what is happening. I hate that.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:26:20 AM
Sidebar continues. Recently Nelson said something aside, so I think the jury may be in.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:27:27 AM
Bernie not in sidebar. Only Guy for state.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:27:55 AM
Bernie's at the bench now.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:28:37 AM
Nelson instructing witnesses not to follow trial, allow anyone to tell them about it.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:29:05 AM
Nelson quizzing jury on whether they obeyed the rules.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:30:16 AM
Nelson addressing jury.

She's reading instructions.

Charging document not evidence.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 07:32:28 AM
Crump hasn't been deposed yet.  O'Mara tells Nelson, "I think you know why".  Anybody here have a clue why?
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:35:09 AM
Nelson read instruction on right to remain silent. It included admonition not to hold defendant not testifying against him.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:35:50 AM
Nelson tells Guy to proceed.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:37:27 AM
Guy started with GZ's profanity, repeating it, talking about GZ following a kid with a gun and 2 flashlights.

Lost audio before I heard if he would say 'tea' or 'juice'.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:38:07 AM
Melodramatic account of TM's death.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 07:38:15 AM
arizona brand juice.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:38:45 AM
Guy emphasizing GZ cursing TM and lying to cops.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: cboldt on June 24, 2013, 07:39:33 AM
Guy started with GZ's profanity, repeating it, talking about GZ following a kid with a gun and 2 flashlights.

Lost audio before I heard if he would say 'tea' or 'juice'.

He said juice.

At least, so far, the state hasn't gone any further back in time than Zimmerman's NEN call.

And Chad is not a brother, but a friend.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:40:00 AM
Death caused by 2 worlds colliding.

GZ wanted to rid neighborhood of people he felt didn't belong.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:40:50 AM
TM at 7-11.

Fruit juice and skittles.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:41:19 AM
W-8 is Rachel Gentel (sp?).
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: cboldt on June 24, 2013, 07:41:33 AM
W-8 is Rachael Gentel.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:42:10 AM
GZ called SPD.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:43:12 AM
Up to f*ing punk again.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:44:04 AM
Guy talking about GZ changing his mind about mailbox meeting.

GZ was going after TM.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:44:46 AM
Officers found TM face down.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:45:22 AM
Earbuds next to his head. Phone next to his body.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 07:45:39 AM
Guy using Zimmerman telling Noffke that cops should call him when he arrived as implying that he had seen Martin and was going after him. 
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:46:39 AM
Raimondo gave direct mouth to mouth, against policy, because he thought there wasn't time to get a mask.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:48:11 AM
Guy describing GZ's injuries.

He declined going to hospital.

Did Guy say the FD people asked GZ about hospital? That isn't correct.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:48:39 AM
GZ spun a tangled web of lies.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:49:41 AM
GZ said TM attacked him just after call ended.

7:13:43, NEN call ended.

7:17:44 TM/W-8 call ended.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:50:46 AM
GZ said Martin ran behind homes, came back to circle his car.

NEN call shows that is physically impossible.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:51:32 AM
TM's hands were examined, had no blood on them.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 07:52:05 AM
Where was Trayvon during those 2 minutes that Z hunted him down?  How could he see him in the darkness?  I doubt the prosecution will explain.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:53:08 AM
No one else heard TM say GZ was going to die.

W-11 pictures will show TM hands beneath his chest, not spread out.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:53:58 AM
No blood or DNA or Martin's cuffs.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:54:20 AM
No TM DNA on gun or holster.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:54:42 AM
GZ had live round in chamber.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:55:44 AM
KelTek-9 has long trigger travel. Don't know what his point is, unless to argue against accidental shooting.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:56:22 AM
Guy emphasizing how dark it was behind houses.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:57:14 AM
Guy describing crime scene evidence, familiar list of items.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:58:12 AM
No witness heard or saw this from beginning to end.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:58:50 AM
Witness will say longer verbal exchange that GZ described.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 07:59:40 AM
A witness saw GZ and TM struggling upright.

Body far from where GZ said he was knocked down.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 07:59:51 AM
Which witness said she saw them both standing up?
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:00:21 AM
W-6 didn't see arms flailing, or hear fighting sounds.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:04:19 AM
GZ told physician assistant he need exam for note to work. Guy seemed to be implying she found his nose wasn't broken.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:05:06 AM
I had to leave for a few minutes.

Guy talking about NW, now gym.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:07:04 AM
Guy talking about irrelevant details of autopsy, to emphasize that TM was dead.

TM small. No bruises or swelling of hands. Only one injury to hand.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:09:13 AM
Guy talking about judge reading instructions.

Prosecutors confident jurors will know GZ shot TM because he wanted to, not because he had to.

West wants time to set up visual aids.

10:08, 15 minute recess.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 08:09:42 AM
I had a call right about then--did he say anything substantive about the gym or just mention it?
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:11:25 AM
Which witness said she saw them both standing up?

Guy didn't say. Often he would just say 'a witness'.

ETA: My guess would be W-18. No one else but W-6 saw the fight for any length of time.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: AghastInFL on June 24, 2013, 08:11:54 AM
I had a call right about then--did he say anything substantive about the gym or just mention it?
He made a point of emphasizing it was a fight Gym... little else.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:18:15 AM
When Guy was talking about the autopsy, he dwelled for a while on the gunshot wound, not to make an evidentiary point, but for the emotion. He emphasized TM shot in heart.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 08:18:48 AM
Hi there AIF.  Welcome back to TLForums.   8)  Are you planning to attend any trial sessions? 
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: cboldt on June 24, 2013, 08:20:34 AM
He made a point of emphasizing it was a fight Gym... little else.

He said it was a gym that teaches kick boxing and MMA, self defense.  I wonder if the gym gets a downturn in business because this client couldn't defend himself.  Or maybe there is a new fighting style ... "first lie down" kickboxing.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 08:20:56 AM
He made a point of emphasizing it was a fight Gym... little else.
But he didn't mention that he had records or witnesses that GZ took fight classes.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:22:20 AM
Guy talking about irrelevant details of autopsy, to emphasize that TM was dead.

TM small.

I typed 'small', but I had forgotten the exact word. Maybe it was 'thin'. Something to portray TM as vulnerable in life and pitiful in death.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: AghastInFL on June 24, 2013, 08:23:02 AM
Hi there AIF.  Welcome back to TLForums.   8)  Are you planning to attend any trial sessions?
I would like to; but there are circumstances which make it difficult to impossible.
I have been lurking, just not much to add lately... thanks for the salutation.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:24:05 AM
Rene Stutzman tweets she doesn't recall any mention of race. I don't either.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 08:25:45 AM
What else new besides Rachel Gentel and a witness saw them both standing up?  Rest has been discussed to death here.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: DiwataMan on June 24, 2013, 08:29:11 AM
What else new besides Rachel Gentel and a witness saw them both standing up?  Rest has been discussed to death here.

George's call ends 7:13:43
Trayvon's call ends 7:15:44
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:29:27 AM
What else new

Official admission the beverage was juice.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: DiwataMan on June 24, 2013, 08:30:09 AM
Official admission the beverage was juice.

Yet somehow left out the watermelon part, hmmm.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: AghastInFL on June 24, 2013, 08:32:43 AM
Yet somehow left out the watermelon part, hmmm.
You want that Tooo!!??

(couldn't resist)
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:32:54 AM
Rene Stutzman tweets description of first visuals, giant photos of GZ's bloody face, witness diagram showing TM on top [probably W-6's], overhead photo of RATL.

ETA: Not surprising that the defense wants the jury to understand the layout of the neighborhood.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:33:40 AM
You want that Tooo!!??

(couldn't resist)

Who would want to resist?  ;D
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 08:37:42 AM
What was relevant towards Murder 2?  The curses?
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:38:37 AM
10:37 AM

Nelson on bench. Sidebar.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: AghastInFL on June 24, 2013, 08:38:53 AM
What was relevant towards Murder 2?  The curses?
pulling the trigger, beyond the safety... he wanted to shoot him. That is all I took away.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: cboldt on June 24, 2013, 08:41:49 AM
Fairly long sidebar.  Maybe arguing over the use of visual aids, or some particular visual aid(s) is being objected to as not in evidence, or prejudicial, etc.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:42:00 AM
What else new

Guy said TM's hands were examined for blood, but not by whom.

I recall we hunted for some statement about that in discovery, never found it.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: cboldt on June 24, 2013, 08:43:08 AM
pulling the trigger, beyond the safety... he wanted to shoot him. That is all I took away.

I believe Zimmerman said he fired on purpose.

The argument that he didn't need to was based on "no serious injury."
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:44:13 AM
10:43

Sidebar over.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:44:51 AM
Nelson told West to proceed.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:45:06 AM
It's a sad case.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:46:32 AM
Sympathizing with TM's parents, saying GZ's parents also grieving.

West talking about why GZ's parents aren't present.

TM's parents have been allowed in.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:47:46 AM
West talking about family he grew up in.

Guy objects to improper argument. Nelson sustains. Personalizing.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:48:12 AM
West is going to tell a joke.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:49:21 AM
Knock Knock

Who's there?

GZ.

GZ who?

You're on the jury.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: AghastInFL on June 24, 2013, 08:49:27 AM
Ouch, don't do it if you have to beg for forgiveness...
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 08:49:40 AM
Joke fell flat IMHO.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:49:56 AM
GZ not guilty of murder. TM viciously attacked him.

Turning to visual aids.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:51:20 AM
Easel faces jury. Camera doesn't show what's on it.

Overhead of RATL. West pointing out locations.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:51:57 AM
Doesn't know if it's TTL or Twin Lake's Lane.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:52:41 AM
West explaining the T.

Now it's the cut-through.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:53:37 AM
GZ was going to Target.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:55:11 AM
GZ saw TM coming in, cutting through houses, where residents wouldn't typically come in. [GZ never said this to SPD.]

Pointing out locations. Colonial Village. 7-11.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:55:49 AM
Explaining different ways TM could have gone from 7-11 to RATL.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:56:23 AM
TM caught GZ's attention.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:57:44 AM
Within 10 minutes GZ was sucker punched, etc., had to shoot.

West talking about NW and W. Dorival.

GZ not a captain, I think West said he was a liaison.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:58:34 AM
No NW patrols. GZ wasn't patrolling this night or any other.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 08:59:22 AM
West explaining difference between 911 and NEN, says NEN call will be played soon.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:00:16 AM
West repeats a*holes and f*ing punks remarks matter-of-factly.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:02:03 AM
Defense has made timeline connecting NEN call and TM/Rachel G. call.

Rachel not TM' GF.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:02:48 AM
20 second gap before 7:12 call, continuous til 7:15:43.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:03:38 AM
7:16:11 W-11 911 call began.

7:15:43 TM/Rachel G. call ended.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:05:29 AM
W-11 is named Lowry.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 09:07:36 AM
W-11 was Ms. Lauer.  Boy friend was Jeremy Weinberg.  I think West just said there was a witness to where the Ridgeline was parked.  John Goode is Witness #6.  Spellings approximate.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:08:32 AM
Something I didn't catch about Eloise Dillegard[sp?]. Recognized GZ's truck, came to ask him what was happening. More about her later.

W-6 is John Good.

West named other witnesses I didn't catch.

West about to play NEN call.

It's playing.

I think West said he would play it once without comment, then play it again and point out some things.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:12:14 AM
Interesting Guy make remarks about NEN call, didn't play it.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:13:04 AM
West pointing out locations again, where GZ and TM were living.

Chad's last name is Johnson.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 09:13:37 AM
Both Guy and West think Chad Johnson was 12 years old.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:14:17 AM
West showing visual of timeline to jurors.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:14:54 AM
7:09:34 NEN start confirmed.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:16:13 AM
West comparing times of TM/RG call and NEN call.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:17:22 AM
West is relating GZ's locations to times on phone call. I'm confused.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 09:22:17 AM
West repeats the trope that Zimmerman had to get out of the truck to see which way Martin was going. 
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:23:30 AM
I had to leave for a while.

West talking about wind noise, says GZ wasn't running.

Describing TM circling, etc., to explain 'f*ing punks'.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:24:41 AM
Jane Serdaika (W-18), West thinks she might have heard GZ on phone.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:25:37 AM
GZ stopped after he said 'OK' to not following.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:26:31 AM
Talking about Rachel G., her age, when she came into the case. West will talk about how later.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:27:57 AM
West describing what happened after GZ was asked for address.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 09:29:15 AM
I think West should have kept away from the street sign business.  But unless Zimmerman's testifies, the prosecution might not be able to make a big deal about it.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:29:38 AM
I thought West would explain what GZ did, but he's going on with the call. GZ didn't want to complete giving phone number.

Evidence will show TM hadn't gone home.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:30:26 AM
West showing a photo of buildings, talking about how dark it was.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:31:09 AM
I just realized West is showing slides.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:32:39 AM
West talking about end of call. I'm not sure if he ever mentioned GZ going to Retreat View Circle.

Call played from beginning again.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 09:34:10 AM
West talking about end of call. I'm not sure if he ever mentioned GZ going to Retreat View Circle.

Call played from beginning again.
He hasn't mentioned RVC yet.  But I gasped when he went into the great address hunt.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: cboldt on June 24, 2013, 09:34:49 AM
I just realized West is showing slides.

I think the transcript is projected on a screen.  The maps are printed.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:38:19 AM
NEN call ends 7:13:40.

TM/RG on phone at that time.

West talking about elements of M2.

RG's statements show TM confronted GZ.

TM could have gone home and back and forth 4 or 5 times.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 09:38:35 AM
Did West say Rachel will confirm that Trayvon was the confronter?
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:39:22 AM
'What are you following for?' Was basically last thing RG heard, except she heard other things. Huh?
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:40:08 AM
West showing diagram of crime scene evidence.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:40:54 AM
West describing what W-11 said she heard.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 09:41:00 AM
Jenna Lauer and Jeremy Weinberg. 
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: AghastInFL on June 24, 2013, 09:41:22 AM
Did West say Rachel will confirm that Trayvon was the confronter?
yes , he said Trayvon decided to confront...
ETA- however, he did say he was using his own words.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:42:25 AM
West about to play W-11 911 call.

ETA: West describing to jury what they will hear on 911 call, explaining evidence that there was only one gunshot.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:44:32 AM
Call playing.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:46:52 AM
West stopped call a little after gunshot. He says jury can listen to the calls as often as they want.

All witness agree screams of person in life-threatening situation.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:48:09 AM
West talking about other 911 calls.

West talking about reasons for poor audio quality. Cell phone limitations, distance from phone to GZ/TM.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 09:49:32 AM
W#18 is Jane Sirdyka (spelling definitely wrong).
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
West pointed out home of W-18 (Serdaika).

She is wrong to think she was watching at time of shot.

Many well-meaning witnesses get things wrong.

West says W-18 thought Martin was face down when he was shot.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:52:26 AM
This reminds me of something else new in Guy's opening: W-13 photo shows TM hands under chest.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:52:48 AM
West talking about W-6 now.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: Cylinder on June 24, 2013, 09:54:48 AM
W6= John Good (no mention of his middle initial)
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:54:54 AM
W-6 (John Good) went out to investigate.

I think West is showing the jury W-6's diagram.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 09:56:08 AM
West said Trayvon's hoodie was charcoal colored.  Well maybe in that lighting but we know it was gray.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:56:28 AM
West talking about W-6 distinguishing colors of GZ/TM clothing.

Talking about 'mounting' as MMA term, means straddling at hips.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:57:27 AM
W-6 saw TM straddling GZ, GZ on his back.

West talking about 'ground and pound'.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:58:31 AM
W-6 said 'stop' or 'cut it out'. 911 recording didn't pick that up.

TM kept hitting.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 09:59:00 AM
Why would there be cries for help after shot?
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 10:00:20 AM
Johnathan Manalo W#13.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:01:49 AM
West guesses silence was deafening after gunshot.

GZ struggled to his feet.

Jonathan Manalo (sp?) is W-13.

West talking about W-13 coming out with flashlight, repeating the things GZ and W-13 said, now photos.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:05:01 AM
West won't show W-13 photos now. Jurors will see them in the evidence.

West thinks position of TM body explained by his straddling GZ.

West explaining why W-13 thought GZ was calm, arguing against elements of M2.

West has mentioned several times that GZ was staggering just after he got up.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:06:12 AM
West talking about Smith arriving, repeating familiar things they said.

GZ cuffed, no resistance.

Smith took gun.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:07:14 AM
West couldn't find visual of holster. O'Mara brought it to him. West showing photos of gun and holster.

West explaining double action.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:08:21 AM
GZ carrying gun the way it was supposed to be carried.

Training Osterman gave GZ was exactly what GZ did.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:09:00 AM
West talking about GZ sitting handcuffed in Smith's car.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 10:10:09 AM
I guess Eloise Delegard will confirm that the Ridgeline was parked where George said it was,.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:10:37 AM
Eloise Dillegard (sp?) drove by and saw GZ's truck.

Mike Wagner asked W-11 to ID GZ and TM. She asks for pictures. Wagner took pictures of TM and GZ.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:11:23 AM
Wagner didn't take picture to document GZ's injuries, but to show neighbors for ID.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:12:45 AM
Chad with headphones, didn't know anything happened.

West showing stills of TM at 7-11.

West also says fruit drink. 23 oz. can, full, that's important, West will explain why later.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:13:31 AM
West talking about TM's height and weight. He wasn't skinny.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:14:38 AM
W-11 didn't recognize picture at first. Dillegard, who lived close to GZ, recognized him, jogging W-11's memory.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:15:07 AM
West showing picture to jury, pointing out injuries.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:16:41 AM
GZ cooperated fully, answered all SPD questions, as many times, as many days as they wanted. GZ didn't ask for a lawyer.

It seems half the witnesses in the case have lawyered up.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:18:25 AM
Paramedics cleaned blood off GZ. He seemed oriented.

Mike Brandy, paramedic, told police he should go to hospital. They said they would take care of it.

West showing pictures of GZ at SPD.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:20:00 AM
Doris Singleton was with GZ.

Chris Serino, lead investigator was at scene. Canvassing, taking statements.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:20:31 AM
West explaining W-6 sketches.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:24:15 AM
West describing CST Diana Smith's actions. Photos she took of GZ less dramatic because blood had been cleaned off, injuries more clearly visible, a number of lumps on head.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 10:26:31 AM
CTH crowd was really denouncing West at the beginning as being a bumbling fool but has now warmed up to the way he is presenting things.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:26:43 AM
A little after midnight, SPD decided to release GZ while investigation continued. GZ went to Osterman's house.

West talking about Osterman, what an air marshal does.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:27:40 AM
West talking about GZ going to work the next day. West explaining what his company does.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:31:01 AM
GZ liked his co-workers, they like him.

West talking about how a co-worker was stunned by his appearance. GZ cried when he spoke to her.

GZ went to a doctor. A physician assistant noted his septum wasn't deviated, but she still thought his nose was broken. No X-ray machine there. She recommended GZ see someone else about nose, but he didn't.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:31:30 AM
12:31 PM Lunch break.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: AghastInFL on June 24, 2013, 10:32:30 AM
CTH crowd was really denouncing West at the beginning as being a bumbling fool but has now warmed up to the way he is presenting things.
Some regulars... but a lot of new names doing the bashing.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:42:18 AM
Nelson mentioned at the start she would be reading instructions to jury, asked O'Mara if he wanted to include 'right to remain silent'. He did.

I'm thinking this might not be clear. All this happened at the very beginning of the session. I didn't get it down at the time, so I mentioned it at the first sidebar.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 10:59:28 AM
O'Mara is citing Crump's press conferences as a reason his presence in court will be 'prejudicial', which is the standard for excluding him despite his being a representative of TM.

Bernie stated that Crump is officially a representative of the deceased TM, as well as living members of his family.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 11:04:12 AM
Something else new, Guy confirmed earbuds found beside TM, not in pocket.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 11:06:37 AM
Guy using Zimmerman telling Noffke that cops should call him when he arrived as implying that he had seen Martin and was going after him.

I didn't hear the part about GZ seeing TM.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 11:12:08 AM
West also said 'juice' but not 'watermelon'. I don't think I mentioned that.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 11:18:06 AM
Court is still in recess. I'm filling in some things.

West made a point of saying Rachel G (J?) is not TM's girlfriend. Between abbreviation and a typo, I'm not sure if that was clear in the first post in which I mentioned it.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 11:20:46 AM
Another piece of news, West saying RATL NW doesn't patrol. That has been unclear. In FBI and FDLE interviews, some residents said they had seen GZ patrolling, on foot or in a vehicle.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 24, 2013, 11:23:27 AM
Both Guy and West think Chad Johnson was 12 years old.

Maybe he is.

We thought W-8 was 16 for a long time, while the prosecutors knew she was 18.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: ding7777 on June 24, 2013, 11:24:11 AM
Guy made F***ing punks, these a**holes always get away sound like it was a single sentence/thought
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 11:24:17 AM
I didn't hear the part about GZ seeing TM.
Guy didn't say that explicitly but he implied that GZ was hatching a diabolical plan as he told the dispatcher, instead of having the cops meet him at the mailboxes, they should call him when they arrived.  Not logical, but in line with how the prosecution is doing things.  So I inferred that Guy was suggesting that at that point, George knew where Trayvon was.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: Redbrow on June 24, 2013, 11:30:58 AM
Maybe he is.

We thought W-8 was 16 for a long time, while the prosecutors knew she was 18.

Aren't there laws against leaving a 12 year old unattended? Maybe that is why Green wanted to represent him as being 14 to the media.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 11:35:04 AM
Vincent DiMaio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Di_Maio) is a defense witness. 
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: leftwig on June 24, 2013, 11:37:24 AM
Since some think West got a bit long winded and too detailed in his opening statement thus far, a question came to mind.  Will the judge consider any evidence he presented in his opening (bloody photos, routes and timings, etc) if/when she is asked to make a judgment for acquittal after the prosecutions case? 
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 11:37:48 AM
Vincent DiMaio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Di_Maio) is a defense witness.

He's really good. Years ago I read "Gunshot Wounds".

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 11:43:08 AM
West points out that GZ didn't push gun into TM's chest.  Just made contact with loose hoodie front.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 11:52:02 AM
West pointing out that TM didn't bleed much, and that his hands weren't bagged to preserve evidence.

West pointing out an error with the handling of TM's clothing in the lab: placed in plastic and sealed as opposed to put in open paper to allow the wet clothes to dry. The DNA tech noted the mold smell.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 11:53:26 AM
Deb's point regards the wet bpb is being addressed.... DNA degraded.

Actually he said there wasn't any way to know that--but it was violation of procedure.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 11:54:44 AM
Showing the dirty knees on TM's pants. Corroborates testimony wrt TM being on top.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 11:57:59 AM
Showing the computer graphic of the scene, created with software called Total Station.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_station
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 11:58:53 AM
West showing a really good picture of the scene - one not seen before.  I hope it appears in the media soon.  What company prepared it?  Shows location of evidence items.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: cboldt on June 24, 2013, 12:00:02 PM
Since some think West got a bit long winded and too detailed in his opening statement thus far, a question came to mind.  Will the judge consider any evidence he presented in his opening (bloody photos, routes and timings, etc) if/when she is asked to make a judgment for acquittal after the prosecutions case?

No.  This is limited to introductory material for the jury.  Witnesses need to testify and present evidence before the court can consider a question of sufficiency of evidence as to guilt.  What West is doing is ZERO evidence.  He is "promising" that these pieces of evidence will be produced.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:02:32 PM
West showing a really good picture of the scene - one not seen before.  I hope it appears in the media soon.  What company prepared it.  Shows location of evidence items.

Total station. It's a surveying tool used by police/fire (and others). Allows for precise plotting without a second person being needed, then the ability to create the computer rendition. He said who created it for them using the data, but I didn't catch it.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:03:31 PM
Saying how the voice ID isn't possible.
"Waste of time or unreliable"....

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 12:08:09 PM
My biggest worry;  West is promising people will come in and say it is George screaming.  He has more to gain by refuting the prosecution witnesses who say it is Trayvon.  But those same witnesses will refute those who say it is George.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:08:23 PM
Inoculating the jury against family saying "oh I recognize that voice" by saying TM's mother will say it was his voice...she certainly wants it to be his voice...and now he's telling the story of how the elder TM wasn't able to recognize the screams.
 
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:09:34 PM
My biggest worry;  West is promising people will come in and say it is George screaming.  He has more to gain by refuting the prosecution witnesses who say it is Trayvon.  But those same witnesses will refute those who say it is George.

He said that to say what he's saying now--that Tracy couldn't ID the voice. In fact he said "no, that's not my son."
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:11:49 PM
Is West really about to go down the road of the public pressure and protests and stuff?

He's talking about how they hired a media consultant and a law firm. Lawsuit for the release of the recording filed by Crump..."great, great public pressure on the city to release the recordings"

Objection by the state. Sustained.

I think objecting makes them look scared.

West appears to be merely rephrasing how he was going.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:13:48 PM
Telling them how Mr. Martin then changed his story and said the voice was his son. Another objection, Nelson says "closing arguments, sustained."

West doesn't seem put off his line of thought at all by it.

ETA: prosecution is glaring at West. It's kinda funny. They should watch the body language. IMO.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 12:15:29 PM
Now West can't call Dr. French to say it is impossible to determine the language, sex or age of the person screaming on that poor quality recording.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:16:22 PM
Now West can't call Dr. French to say it is impossible to determine the language, sex or age of the person screaming on that poor quality recording.

Why not? It's what he just said isn't it?
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:17:26 PM
Another objection, West tried to explain and they objected to his explanation. Sustained with a mini lecture from Nellie about what opening statements are supposed to be.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 12:21:33 PM
Why not? It's what he just said isn't it?
Because that contradicts his own witness' claims that they can identify GZ's voice.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:21:53 PM
West is telling them about the gym, how GZ joined to lose weight. He took a grappling class and a boxing class. He never made it past standing up and hitting the bag in the boxing class. Not an athlete, soft.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:22:46 PM
Because that contradicts his own witness' claims that they can identify GZ's voice.

But that's West's whole point, isn't it?
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:25:59 PM
Guy objects to West talking about the same thing he talked about wrt GZ's firearm.
Sustained. Of course.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:27:52 PM
Getting testy. Bernie's flapping his arms and Guy finally objects again, sustained again.


"Trayvon armed himself with the concrete sidewalk".

Good line.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 24, 2013, 12:29:10 PM
But that's West's whole point, isn't it?
You think he wants them to regard all voice witnesses as being FOS?  Maybe there is a method in that madness.  OK   ???
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:31:58 PM
You think he wants them to regard all voice witnesses as being FOS?  Maybe there is a method in that madness.  OK   ???

Well he can't very well tell them to only listen to the ones that say it was GZ and not to listen to the ones who say it wasn't GZ, right?

Notice how he mentioned the elder TM and GZ's uncle and also GZ's neighbor.

But who knows, right?
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:33:50 PM
It appears Crump will not be allowed in as long as Trayvon's family is in, since they don't need a rep if they're there.

Elder TM cursed at someone.

[Edited by TalkLeft to change abbreviated form of Trayvon's family to full words. Please don't use shorthand that appears derisive.. Also removed reference to Zimmerman's family as they were not the object of the alleged curse. It was a friend of GZ's who had attended court.]
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: TalkLeft on June 24, 2013, 12:34:02 PM
West is done and they are hearing a motion on sequestration of witnesses. O'Mara is arguing that the rule shouldn't apply to Zimmerman's family. He doesn't intend to call either one. He wants an inquiry into whether the state put them on the witness list to exclude them.

The judge says the law only allows victims parents or representatives. Not representatives of defendant.

If Martin's parents are in the courtroom, Crump can't be. It's one or the other.


Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: TalkLeft on June 24, 2013, 12:39:00 PM
O'Mara says Tracy Martin cursed at at someone in the courtroom and says since Sybrina is in the courtroom, he should be excluded. He asks to call a witness to testify. Judge denies, says she watched the participants in courtroom and observed no misconduct.

Judge is really nasty to O'Mara. Says victims parents have an absolute right to be there. Defendant's parents do not.

She won't ask state if they really intend to call the Zimmermans.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: TalkLeft on June 24, 2013, 12:41:24 PM
O'Mara calls Mr. Jackowski (sp.) He was coming back from a bathroom break. Mr. Martin saw his badge. Feed blocks audio. It must have been an expletive. Bernie cross-examines. He's a friend of Mr. Zimmerman. He's been in court the past two Tuesdays.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: TalkLeft on June 24, 2013, 12:42:28 PM
Martin called him a "MF" under his breath. He was walking in as Martin was walking out and J. held the door for him. Martin said that under his breath.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:42:39 PM
O'Mara calls Mr. Jackowski (sp.) He was coming back from a bathroom break. Mr. Martin saw his badge. Feed blocks audio. It must have been an expletive. Bernie cross-examines. He's a friend of Mr. Zimmerman. He's been in court the past two Tuesdays.

mother effer.

Nelson is getting feisty.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: TalkLeft on June 24, 2013, 12:44:22 PM
Bernie asks him to demonstrate. He was right in front. First time they made eye contact. It happened between the outer door and the inner door (of the courtroom?)

Martin looked down at the badge and then said it. That's what he heard.

(Note: his badge says "Zimmerman's family members." Its one of the passes that each side is given to provide to people to get a confirmed seat in the front row set aside to the families/friends of the Martins and Zimmermans.)
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: TalkLeft on June 24, 2013, 12:45:47 PM
Bernie said there never was a threat as O'Mara said.  He first told Shellie Zimmerman, who was sitting.

This didn't happen today. It happened on a prior occasion.

Audio Feed is gone.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: TalkLeft on June 24, 2013, 12:46:36 PM
Back. It happened two Tuesdays ago.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:48:40 PM
Why would Bernie be so aggressive on that? It doesn't seem that it would be that big a deal considering the situation.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 12:50:35 PM
GZ's family isn't going to be allowed as long as they're on the witness list.

Wouldn't the jury see them not there and wonder about it, thus damaging (possibly) GZ's ability to get a fair trial?
And really--how much could anything they might hear effect their testimony?

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: TalkLeft on June 24, 2013, 12:50:53 PM
He didn't want to make waves, so he didn't discuss it with anyone else. He doesn't know how O'Mara found out. He thinks the deputies were told because it was a security issue.

Court ruling that Tracy can stay will stand. Court says no objectionable conduct in the courtroom that she observed. She doesn't find the witness' testimony relevant.

The Martin's can stay, and while either is there, Crump cannot be.
Mr. and Mrs. Zimmerman are excluded so long as they are on the state's witness list.

Court in recess. Will resume with State's first witness. New thread up for first witness. This thread will remain open for comments about opening statements.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: MJW on June 24, 2013, 02:03:52 PM
I believe W8's name is spelled "Rachel Jeantel."
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: jjr495 on June 24, 2013, 04:53:20 PM
The biggest factual difference that I noticed in the opening is the forensics on the gunshot. Guy said that Z pushed the gun into Martin's chest. West said the forensics will show that the gun was contacting M's clothing, but there was separation between the clothing and the chest. Is this going to be a debate between different forensic experts? If West is correct, it places M on top of Z when the gun was fired, and it means the State incorrectly stated a very important piece of evidence in the opening.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: Cylinder on June 24, 2013, 04:56:47 PM
Is this going to be a debate between different forensic experts?

If it is, it will be a debate between the state's expert and the state's expert. Again.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: TalkLeft on June 24, 2013, 10:02:31 PM
If you need to use shorthand for either Trayvon Martin's family or George Zimmerman's family, use something neutral like TM's family or GZ's family, not a word that appears insulting.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 24, 2013, 10:20:17 PM
It appears Crump will not be allowed in as long as Trayvon's family is in, since they don't need a rep if they're there.

Elder TM cursed at someone.

[Edited by TalkLeft to change abbreviated form of Trayvon's family to full words. Please don't use shorthand that appears derisive.. Also removed reference to Zimmerman's family as they were not the object of the alleged curse. It was a friend of GZ's who had attended court.]

It wasn't a family member, but O'Mara said it was. I'm pretty sure he wasn't ID'd as a family friend until he was being crossed.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 01:33:31 AM
The biggest factual difference that I noticed in the opening is the forensics on the gunshot. Guy said that Z pushed the gun into Martin's chest.

Did Guy cite any specific forensic evidence for that?

I know he didn't the first time he said it. It was just one of his dramatic flourishes. I thought he might have mentioned it again at some point.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 03:17:59 AM
YouTube

Part 1, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsgtFBN8uKs) 1:07:46

Part 2, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktQ9mgjH-9w)  1:48:05

Part 3, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvq6E2Re0Tw) 57:18

Part 4, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0s9IyN5rI) 1:23:11

Part 5, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLmUXSTECRI) 31:19
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: cboldt on June 25, 2013, 04:54:29 AM
On the issue of excluding the Zimmerman family from trial for purposes of not giving them an opportunity to conform their testimony to previous disclosures, the court might be asked to consider the testimony the family members will be asked to give.  If the testimony is only as to whose voice is heard screaming on the 911 call, the exposure to competing testimony is already known, and sequestration serves no purpose in insuring a fair trial.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 05:04:33 AM
If the testimony is only as to whose voice is heard screaming on the 911 call

That doesn't seem likely, since George's parents are prosecution witnesses.

I don't know if either party can be required to disclose to the court what it plans to ask its witnesses. If not, it wouldn't do for the court to make decisions based on assumptions about that.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 06:57:48 AM
I'm increasingly optimistic that Zimmerman will be acquitted. The weakness of the prosecution's opening statement is the latest reason for that.

Three points stand out for me.

Curses and Lies
Quote
Ladies and gentlemen, the truth about the murder of Trayvon Martin is going to come directly from his mouth, from those hate-filled words that he used to describe a perfect stranger, and from the  lies that he told to the police to try to justify his actions.

He cursed Trayvon Martin and he lied to the police. That's the heart of their case. Add some disputes about forensics and it's almost the whole of their case.

Motive
Quote
And we are confident, that at the end of this trial, you will know, in your head, in your heart, in your stomach, that George Zimmerman did not shoot Trayvon Martin because he had to. He shot him for the worst of all reasons. Because he wanted to.

Because he wanted to?

I had been listening with anticipation, expecting a one sentence summation of the prosecution's theory of Zimmerman's motive. It turns out Guy's explanation for why he did it amounts to, 'beats the heck out of me.'

In the beginning it seemed he did have a theory.

More Specific Motive
Quote
. . . and someone who believed, most importantly, that it was his right to rid his neighborhood of anyone that he believed didn't belong.

I don't know of any evidence that supports this. One of the people Zimmerman reported, who was later convicted of a burglary, did live in the neighborhood. Zimmerman's problem, as far as I can tell from all the evidence I have studied, was with people who committed crimes, not people who 'he believed didn't belong.'
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 25, 2013, 08:36:28 AM
I haven't gone back and listened again to what role Rachel Jeantel will play in proving the prosecution case.  I doubt it was more than a sentence or two. 
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 10:18:34 AM
I listened to all of Guy's opening statement for my last post in the thread.

I think the only substantive points he made about Jeantel were that she heard Martin say 'What are you following me for' (he fixed the grammar), and the time the call ended.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 10:56:08 AM
Guy said Martin 'walked out the door' of the 7-11 at 6:24, 'and he started walking home in the rain.' Guy skipped over 5 minutes in the parking lot, and didn't mention Martin's departure from the view of the 7-11 camera at 6:29.

Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: RickyJim on June 25, 2013, 11:06:15 AM
The 711 cashier testified that there were no cameras outside the 711.  Was he mistaken?  I don't recall the footage between 6:24 and 6:29.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 11:17:24 AM
The 711 cashier testified that there were no cameras outside the 711. 

AFAIK he's right. One of the inside cameras has a view of the parking lot through the window.

Photo set. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/sets/72157630816160472/)

ETA: Martin isn't visible for most of the time he was in the parking lot. He passes in front of the window when he leaves.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 01:49:17 PM
Responding to post on another thread.

IIRC, Guy didn't even mention W-2 yesterday.

I'm sure that's correct. Good point.

That was something I meant to be watching for, and it slipped my mind completely.
Title: Re: Day 1: Opening Statements, June 24, 2013
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 05:36:49 AM
The way Guy dealt with Zimmerman's injuries is almost funny.

Guy told the story of Martin's death twice, in a short, preview version, then a long version.

In the short version, Zimmerman walked up to Martin, pushed the gun into his chest, and shot him. In the long version, otherwise more detailed, the shooting was not recounted at all. It was alluded to, implicitly letting memory of the short version fill in.

Only then, after Martin's death in the long version, were Zimmerman's injuries mentioned by Guy. He immediately moved into minimizing their severity. But wait a minute. Be the injuries heavy or light, why did Zimmerman have injuries at all? That's not part of the story.

I'm thinking Guy may be setting up the idea that Zimmerman's injuries were self-inflicted.