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George Zimmerman Trial Coverage => Witnesses => Topic started by: TalkLeft on June 25, 2013, 03:00:44 AM

Title: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: TalkLeft on June 25, 2013, 03:00:44 AM
The mystery is over. The state and the defense both disclosed today that Witness 8, formerly referred to by the media as "Dee Dee", who was on the phone with Trayvon Martin shortly before he was shot, is Rachel Jeantel. She is 19  and was 18 at the time Martin was shot. Both sides apparently expect her to testify.

Please do not attack her character here. Such comments will be deleted. Unless it is confirmed that her twitter account is really her's (it only goes back to Feb. 2013) please don't link to it. As of tonight she only has 32 followers and o Facebook, only 30 friends. She apparently went to Norwood High School and is studying (or was studying) criminal justice at a college.

You may discuss her credibility, her prior interviews, her prior false statements, her relationship to Crump and her interviewe with him, and once she is called. if she is called, her testimony. 

Don West spent a significant amount of time during his opening on her. He said they had been talking regularly on the phone for about 3 weeks. They were friends, but not boyfriend and girlfriend.  He pointed out that in her pre-trial statements, she said TM was the one who confronted GZ (What are you doing around here/)

He focused on the timing of her last two calls with Martin and  the end of GZ's non-emergency call, the 911 call by Jenna Lauer (W 11) and the gunshot.

He said Rachel and Martin hung up 30 seconds before Jenna called 911, and  the gunshot was 4 0 to 45 seconds into Jenna's call.

The state and the defense agree on the times of the calls. GZ's call with non-emergency ended at 7:13:40.  Rachel's call with Martin ended at 7:15: 43.  Jenna called at 7:16:10.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 03:51:02 AM
Guy, unlike West, did not emphasize that Rachel and Trayvon were not a couple. He did refer to her as a 'friend'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 03:54:22 AM
In his opening statement, Guy mentioned that Chad only asked for Skittles, and the fruit juice was for Trayvon. That, and it being fruit juice rather than tea, will be impeaching of Rachel.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: cboldt on June 25, 2013, 04:15:12 AM
Crump, maybe in violation in a court order that he be sequestered, gave a televised interview to Anderson Cooper last night.  Cooper asked if Rachael was the same person Crump interviewed in March, 2012.  I haven't seen the interview, but have read that Crump's answer was evasive.

Assuming she takes the stand for the prosecution, will the prosecution enter the handwritten statement, what de la Rionda refers to as a "letter, given to Sybrina", into evidence?

It would be a challenging chore to come up with a comprehensive list of "good questions" to ask on cross exam, and direct exam if the defense decides to call the witness.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 25, 2013, 05:25:16 AM
My recollection is that Guy only mentioned Rachel briefly in passing.  Can anybody recap exactly what he said she would do for the prosecution's case?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 05:43:11 AM
Rachel's call with Martin ended at 7:15: 43.  Jenna called at 7:16:10.

The interval is 27 seconds.

Jeremy Weinberg estimated (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTu13yZpBf0&feature=relmfu#t=4m24s) that Jenna started calling about 15 seconds after he first heard 'scuffling'. That would have been just after the shouting, which Jenna heard but Jeremy apparently did not. Of course, we all know that estimating time intervals is not something humans are very good at.

For my computer I have earmuff headphones with a carrying pouch. I found that taking them off and stowing them takes about 10 seconds if I do it deliberately, 6 if I rush.

ETA: This is with the carrying pouch loose on the desk. I have to hold it open and in place while getting the headphones into it. Shoving them into a pocket would probably be faster.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on June 25, 2013, 07:19:48 AM
I thought they were found on the ground
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 25, 2013, 07:37:25 AM
The interval is 27 seconds.

Of course, we all know that estimating time intervals is not something humans are very good at.



You forgot to insert the "in my opinion", because I happen to be able to estimate time passage with an almost painful accuracy. My father was the same way.

Therefore, "we all know" is false.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 07:50:19 AM
I happen to be able to estimate time passage with an almost painful accuracy. My father was the same way.

Has it been your experience that this ability is common?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 25, 2013, 07:59:21 AM
Has it been your experience that this ability is common?

Out of the dozen or so people I can think of off the top of my head, a couple of them can't keep time in their heads. I haven't done an exhaustive study of it, I'm just saying that you might want to not say it as a definitive statement.

But do as you please!  ;D
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 25, 2013, 08:05:37 AM
I'm just saying that you might want to not say it as a definitive statement.

I take the point.

I'm more interested in the question of how much significance to give a witness's testimony on such a point.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 25, 2013, 08:12:55 AM
To get really off topic, on a documentary, the late pianist Artur Rubinstein claimed he could start a symphony playing in his head and take a few phone calls and other interruptions and pick up the symphony at the point it would be playing if he hadn't been interrupted.  8)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on June 25, 2013, 01:27:26 PM
Has it been your experience that this ability is common?

It was my experience that during my days as a radio announcer/disk jockey/commercial producer I got much better at it and that having been away from it for almost 20 years I'm still better than before I started in the industry but not nearly as good as when I was active.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on June 25, 2013, 01:29:20 PM
If the hollerin' didn't start until right at the end of Trayvon's last call, which ended later than I previously suspected, I'm impressed with how quickly W11 got on the phone.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: TalkLeft on June 25, 2013, 01:44:18 PM
West mentioned something about the first phone W11 picked up to call didn't work and she had to get another one. He said that only took seconds though.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: leftwig on June 25, 2013, 01:51:11 PM
I assume the end call time was that garnered from TM's phone call.  I presume we have no idea whether he hung it up or it hung up on its own (W8 describes it going dead at some point, not that TM ended the call).  Looking for clarification is twofold.  The more W8 testifies to hearing, the less gap there is between the time GZ ended his NEN call and the two encounter each other. If she heard nothing, then there is a 2 minute gap, but if she heard as much as indicated in the BDLR/Crump interviews, it might only be a 90 second gap.  IT may also call into question either the narrative of W8 or that of Jenna/Jeremy.  W8 says she heard verbal exchange and some scuffling, but no cries for help from anyone, so lets presume she heard 20-30 seconds of the encounter.  This would mean it was at least 45 seconds from the time Jenna heard the start of the verbal exchange until she called 911, which is longer than they describe. 

We aren't talking about huge gaps of time, so certainly within the margin for error of guestimates after the fact.  I think its certainly possible W8 hear argument and Jenna/Jeremy heard what they did and have them fit within the timeline. 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on June 26, 2013, 02:09:36 AM
I assume the end call time was that garnered from TM's phone call.  I presume we have no idea whether he hung it up or it hung up on its own (W8 describes it going dead at some point, not that TM ended the call).  Looking for clarification is twofold.  The more W8 testifies to hearing, the less gap there is between the time GZ ended his NEN call and the two encounter each other. If she heard nothing, then there is a 2 minute gap, but if she heard as much as indicated in the BDLR/Crump interviews, it might only be a 90 second gap.  IT may also call into question either the narrative of W8 or that of Jenna/Jeremy.  W8 says she heard verbal exchange and some scuffling, but no cries for help from anyone, so lets presume she heard 20-30 seconds of the encounter.  This would mean it was at least 45 seconds from the time Jenna heard the start of the verbal exchange until she called 911, which is longer than they describe. 

We aren't talking about huge gaps of time, so certainly within the margin for error of guestimates after the fact.  I think its certainly possible W8 hear argument and Jenna/Jeremy heard what they did and have them fit within the timeline.


They said Trayvon's last call ended at 7:15:44 pm, which was only 27 seconds before W11's 911 call was answered at 7:16:11 pm
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 26, 2013, 12:30:31 PM
Woot, woot!
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 26, 2013, 12:31:13 PM
Family is from Dominican Republic. Met Martin in elementary school.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:31:20 PM
She's like a child who can't sit still.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:32:42 PM
TM's parents look like they don't approve of her.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 12:33:25 PM
Heh. She's rolling her eyes at Bernie. Can't hold that against her.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:33:55 PM
Now Chad is a 'future step-brother'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:35:37 PM
She didn't think it was a big idea? (1st sighting of GZ)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:36:18 PM
TM kept complaining that a man kept watching him.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 12:36:45 PM
If I were BDLR, I would have presented her much earlier on, before the suspicions of witness coaching had a chance to set it.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:37:19 PM
She asked what GZ looked like and TM said he looked creepy.

This is new.

ETA: TM said  He was 'a creepy-ass cracker.' RJ said GZ might be a rapist. TM said for her to stop playing with him like that.

Familiar story now. Rain slacked and TM started walking.

West objected that Bernie mis-stated her testimony.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 26, 2013, 12:37:37 PM
Somebody explain what "narrative objection" is.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 12:38:00 PM
She asked what GZ looked like and TM said he looked creepy.

This is new.

creepy ass cracka no less.

a rapist? TM was afraid GZ might rape him?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 26, 2013, 12:38:10 PM
"Creepy ass cracka."
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 12:38:42 PM
Somebody explain what "narrative objection" is.

Bernie is testifying, only asking her to say yes or no instead of asking her questions.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 12:39:32 PM
creepy ass cracka no less.

a rapist? TM was afraid GZ might rape him?

I think he was probably just being generally derogatory.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 26, 2013, 12:39:49 PM
Somebody explain what "narrative objection" is.

IANAL. Narratives are witnesses testifying free form - like one would tell a story. Witnesses are only allowed to answer questions.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:41:05 PM
creepy ass cracka no less.

a rapist? TM was afraid GZ might rape him?

RJ said that.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 12:41:16 PM
we've gotten to the mailing area
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:42:12 PM
They were talking about All-Star game. Another new element. She told Bernie she didn't care about the game.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 12:42:45 PM
RJ said that.

I don't think so. She says TM said he might be a rapist and she said 'don't be like that' or something.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 26, 2013, 12:42:53 PM
IANAL. Narratives are witnesses testifying free form - like one would tell a story. Witnesses are only allowed to answer questions.
Ridiculous rule.  You would get more out of a witness (within limits) by letting them just talk. 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:44:05 PM
West asked for her last answer to be read back. Nelson said 'no'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:46:10 PM
TM wouldn't run because he was almost right by his daddy's fiance's house.

Nelson asked her to repeat her answer.

Now Nelson and Bernie disagreeing over which microphone is the problem.

'Run from the back'!
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 12:46:16 PM
West asked for her last answer to be read back. Nelson said 'no'.

then RJ ended up repeating again it anyway  ::), nelsons in fine form today
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:47:14 PM
Nobody's going to ask what 'from the back' means?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:47:53 PM
Now we have 'walk faster'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 12:49:54 PM
witness takes a break at the most critical point in the action to close her bathroom door.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:50:01 PM
TM said 'the n*'s behind me.'

She was fixing her hair.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 12:50:39 PM
hears wet grass sounds
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:51:20 PM
She heard a bump and assumed it was the headset. She started hearing wet grass sounds.

'Get off. Get off.' She kinda heard that.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 12:53:49 PM
Didn't believe he was dead, assumed he was just in a physical confrontation in the dark with a complete stranger and elected not to call her back.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on June 26, 2013, 12:53:58 PM
I think he was probably just being generally derogatory.


Ethnic slurs are generally derogatory.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:54:52 PM
She thought it was a fight. She thought he was by the house, and someone would come and help him. She thought his daddy was there.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 12:55:25 PM

Ethnic slurs are generally derogatory.

I was talking more about the 'seems like a rapist' comment
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:56:19 PM
Her friend went to wake, told her they got the man.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 12:58:14 PM
Bernie asking her about lying. He asked why she really didn't go to the wake.

She felt guilty about people finding out she was last person to talk to TM.

ETA: Now she has told three stories about this.

15 minute recess, 2:58 PM

ETA 2: Jury gone, Nelson calls pre-recess sidebar.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 26, 2013, 01:00:00 PM
Did she also not go to the funeral?  Or was it not asked?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:00:41 PM
Did she also not go to the funeral?  Or was it not asked?

Still not asked.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:01:13 PM
Recess for real, 3:00 PM.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:02:38 PM
I was expecting this to be the longest version of her story, but it's shorter than the one she told Bernie. No 'couple of minutes'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 01:05:59 PM
OT but I love how every time Nelson is nasty to West he responds with "thank you, your honor".
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:07:09 PM
OT but I love how every time Nelson is nasty to West he responds with "thank you, your honor".

At least he doesn't say 'May I have another?'
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on June 26, 2013, 01:07:27 PM
Very rehearsed
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:11:24 PM
I always assumed that the first time she said 'from the back' in a courtroom, someone would ask what it meant. If I were the judge, I would ask. What's the point of a witness saying things the jury doesn't understand?

Am I the only one who thinks it might make a difference, to understand how walking or running 'from the back' is different from everyday walking or running? RJ seems to think it makes a difference.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: leftwig on June 26, 2013, 01:15:53 PM
I always assumed that the first time she said 'from the back' in a courtroom, someone would ask what it meant. If I were the judge, I would ask. What's the point of a witness saying things the jury doesn't understand?

Am I the only one who thinks it might make a difference, to understand how walking or running 'from the back' is different from everyday walking or running? RJ seems to think it makes a difference.

It absolutely makes a difference, but clearly she didn't see it, so the "from the back" are TM's words to her and she likely has no clue what it means.  It is worth asking her though and I imagine the defense will.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 01:16:25 PM
I agree with you NM, but it seems as though Nelson just wants RJ off the stand and out of her court room as fast as possible.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 01:17:04 PM
It absolutely makes a difference, but clearly she didn't see it, so the "from the back" are TM's words to her and she likely has no clue what it means.  It is worth asking her though and I imagine the defense will.

I'm pretty sure it's her description and not TM's.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:19:34 PM
It absolutely makes a difference, but clearly she didn't see it, so the "from the back" are TM's words to her and she likely has no clue what it means.

If it meant nothing to her, I think she would drop it. 

Quote
It is worth asking her though and I imagine the defense will.

I'm starting to wonder. Maybe neither side wants to ask a question they don't know the answer to. Come to think of it, the defense would have asked in deposition if they were going to ask at all.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:21:25 PM
RJ is less convincing in court than in any of her interviews. She seems like she's in a hurry to say her lines and get out of there. She doesn't seem to care much about getting justice for her friend.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:23:01 PM
West up for cross.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: leftwig on June 26, 2013, 01:24:00 PM
I'm pretty sure it's her description and not TM's.

As I recall her BDLR intereview, W8 says TM told her "he about to run from the back" after she suggested he run to his fathers house.  I don't see any possible way she could in her own words describe how TM was running or path he took without it being his words describing it to her.  Certainly he could have told it differently to her and these are her interpretations of what he said, but its the only way she ever described it, so my guess is thats all she remembers.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 01:24:07 PM
feb. 1st 2012 was the first contact they had since grade school.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 01:24:55 PM
feb. 1st 2012 was the first contact they had since grade school.

edit sorry, that was the first time they began talking on the phone/texting since grade school.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:25:25 PM
She says she wasn't his girlfriend 'in any way'. (That was West's question.)

ETA: Except, of course, that they was getting there.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:26:23 PM
West changes 'at some length' to 'a lot'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:29:45 PM
She has finally calmed enough to sit still. She seems more comfortable being cross-examined than she did telling her story.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 01:30:10 PM
Looks like they weren't talking for the whole day.  The first call started at 5:09 pm.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:33:59 PM
West: Are you with me?

RJ: No, you lost me.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 01:35:14 PM
Looks like they weren't talking for the whole day.  The first call started at 5:09 pm.

She said the list didn't have every call on it.
She said the first one was around 12 something.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:36:01 PM
She said 'shortcut'. She has no idea from where to where.

The mail area was in the complex where his father was staying.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:36:25 PM
RJ says she has never been to RATL.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 26, 2013, 01:36:58 PM
Went straight from 7-11 to mail boxes in RATL. This will become important later.
 
ETA: The claim, that is...not the fact.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:38:26 PM
TM was caught in the rain. He did a shortcut to the mail area.

It was right by the place the houses are at.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:40:15 PM
Sounds from the back room? That's new.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 01:41:15 PM
Sounds from the back room? That's new.

back ground?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:41:39 PM
She thought 'right by' meant a couple of houses away.

TM didn't say he turned around.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 26, 2013, 01:42:17 PM
She said Martin turned around in a previous statement. She also said Martin spoke first.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:43:19 PM
West said GZ said 'What are you talking about?'

RJ says she doesn't remember talking to Crump because she didn't want to talk to him.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:45:23 PM
RJ: They say they had got the person who shot Trayvon.

She didn't think she was a witness. She thought that if she was the last person who talked to him, the authorities would have found her. She thought there were people there who were witnesses.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 01:45:46 PM
Was waiting for law enforcement to call her, thought it was 'case closed'.  Asks West if he's seen the show "the first 48"
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:46:21 PM
RJ talking about some kind of crimestopping TV show. West clueless.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:47:35 PM
RJ thought GZ was arrested withing two days. Her friend told her.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:49:37 PM
If RJ didn't think she was the last person who talked to TM in the early days, why would that be the reason she felt guilty about going to the wake? She's caught again.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:50:40 PM
West is asking about the wake.

RJ thinks it was March 2. She said it like a question.

She called it 'the wakening'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:51:07 PM
RJ only watches the news for the weather.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:52:39 PM
Tracy asked RJ to talk to Crump, not LE.

RJ: 'I do not watch news. I do not watch news!'
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 01:53:13 PM
This girl is making my head hurt.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:53:51 PM
West: We'll come back to that.

This is even funnier than I expected.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 01:55:03 PM
West: We'll come back to that.

This is even funnier than I expected.

I was a fan of her urging West to ask the next question "you can go! you can go!"
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 01:55:10 PM
If RJ was always above 18 here why did she need to talk to her mother?

Oh, she lied and told Sybrina she was 16. Or maybe not. Oy.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:55:22 PM
RJ says she lied to Sybrina, told her she was 16.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 01:55:58 PM
I was a fan of her urging West to ask the next question "you can go! you can go!"

That was pretty epic.
Willing to bet West has never heard that in a court room, ever.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 01:56:48 PM
Says she didn't want to meet TM's mother.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:56:58 PM
RJ called her mom and told her to say she wouldn't consent to interview. She didn't want to meet Sybrina in that situation.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 01:57:57 PM
The more annoyed she gets with the questions the better her story seems to be getting.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 26, 2013, 01:58:06 PM
Hooray.   They are letting do a "narrative".
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on June 26, 2013, 01:58:15 PM
She scrubbed her Twitter account. She wished RZ Jr would shut the blank up with his life story
and she hoped she was driving West crazy.  Did Bernie not tell her to stay off Social media?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 01:59:30 PM
RJ says her plan was for her friend to give Sybrina the letter, and she would be done with it. She told her mother what to say. But her mother agreed for RJ to meet Sybrina.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:02:35 PM
3/19 meeting, RJ and Sybrina. RJ gave her letter, but she wouldn't open it. She wanted RJ to tell her what happened.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:04:35 PM

The letter. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/8599626143/)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:08:50 PM
It seems like RJ is saying there were plans for her to meet Tracy and Sybrina, but 3/19 phone interview was substituted. What about the meeting that Crump alluded to, in which she told Tracy and Sybrina that GZ said 'What are you doing around here?'
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:10:00 PM
RJ says nobody told her there would be an ABC reporter in the 3/19 conference.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 02:10:19 PM
She describes setting up the initial interview with crump, says she wasn't told that news reporter(s) would be there.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:12:14 PM
Now she says she doesn't remember saying she was 16.

New now, admitting she did.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:13:37 PM
West asked for a sidebar to make a speaking objection. Nelson said he couldn't object to his own question. I didn't follow after that, but the sidebar is happening.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:16:53 PM
I thought W-8 was going to be fun, but this beats everything.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:17:53 PM
RJ was at her house for 3/19 interview, doesn't know where the others were.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:18:41 PM
RJ says she consented to recording of interview, not to release to public.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:19:41 PM
RJ: I speak low.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:21:10 PM
3/20, RJ got a text from her brother, asking if she knew her voice was on TV. She was shocked.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:22:37 PM
RJ said pictures of her weren't released because she said not to. Why, if she didn't know anything would be released?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:23:47 PM
West: None of it was true. You weren't 16 and you weren't his girlfriend.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 02:26:12 PM
Claims that she and her friend were sharing her phone.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:27:25 PM
RJ didn't expect to be TM's girlfriend. He was interested in another girl.

A friend of RJ didn't have a phone and used her phone. She texted TM pretending to be RJ. Sometimes she texted for RJ, because she was busy.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:30:29 PM
RJ is being bouncy again.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 02:30:57 PM
A kind of bizarre argument arises between RJ and West over the scheduling of their deposition in march, RJ chides west, says he should have interviewed her twice in the same week so she could have had it over with.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:32:34 PM
RJ doesn't recall saying GZ said 'What are you talking about?'

RJ didn't take Crump interview seriously.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 02:33:12 PM
Says she wasn't really taking her interview with Crump very seriously, didn't really want to be there.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:34:06 PM
Tracy is fascinated by the floor.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 26, 2013, 02:34:39 PM
I followed up to the point she was in the closet lying about how Martin confronted Zimmerman.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:35:10 PM
They are putting CD of 3/19 interview into evidence. It's from ABC.

Sidebar at Bernie's request.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 02:39:31 PM
the wild about trial feed is being hinky for me, did she say why the recess?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 02:43:58 PM
west says something about getting the proper impeachment just before bernie demanded the approach.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 26, 2013, 02:45:41 PM
The state is probably challenging the Guttman tape being played for the jury.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:51:13 PM
Still in recess, recapitulating.

RJ said that among the reasons she didn't like doing the 3/19 interview, one was she didn't like talking about death, and another was that she was doing it from a closet. She didn't explain why she had to do it from a closet.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 02:55:59 PM
Still in recess, recapitulating.

RJ said that among the reasons she didn't like doing the 3/19 interview, one was she didn't like talking about death, and another was that she was doing it from a closet. She didn't explain why she had to do it from a closet.

For some reason I thought she was using 'in the closet' in the metaphorical sense, like there was information she was withholding or something along those lines.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:56:49 PM
RJ is using her disinterest in the 3/19 interview as an excuse for not being accurate and not remembering what she said. But on the recording she seemed to me to be a lot more interested than she seemed to be telling the story in the courtroom. I don't think she even mentioned TM being frightened. Like I said before, she just seemed to be rushing through lines. She was much more dramatic and emotional with both Crump and Bernie.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 02:59:14 PM
RJ is really looking bored now.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 03:00:17 PM
RJ is reading transcript of the 3/19 recording. West says they played the recording for her deposition.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: cboldt on June 26, 2013, 03:01:02 PM
For some reason I thought she was using 'in the closet' in the metaphorical sense, like there was information she was withholding or something along those lines.

I missed that part of the cross exam, but it's possible she went into a closet to improve the acoustics for the phone interview.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 03:01:55 PM
Bernie objected that they should read more pages. Nelson says he can do it in redirect.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 03:03:45 PM
West says in deposition, she admitted that GZ said something like 'what you talking about'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 03:05:53 PM
"you listnin'?"

man.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 03:07:58 PM
I think she just said she wasn't completely truthful or accurate in the tape she made with/for Crump.

But she's hard to understand.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 03:09:02 PM
Almost looks like she's looking toward Bernie for help.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 03:09:58 PM
RJ audibly expressing her frustration, seems unhappy about having to repeat herself.  West offers to recess until tomorrow, RJ says no way she's leaving today and that's it.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 03:10:33 PM
And voila, Bernie objects. West essentially ignores him and carries on.

RJ seems like she's refusing to come back tomorrow. Heh.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 03:12:30 PM
She just says Trayvon "have kinda a baby voice" before West reads what she already says--which is that they know it wasn't Trayvon's voice.

Can they use this to play TM's voice to show it's not a baby voice?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 03:12:40 PM
West says in her deposition RJ said she didn't know if the voice screaming on the 911 call was TM's.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 03:12:54 PM
RJ doesn't seem to grasp the importance of the distinction between saying that the voice sounded like Trayvon's and saying that the voice was Trayvon's.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: cboldt on June 26, 2013, 03:14:17 PM
"you listnin'?"

man.

I don't really blame her.  I think she is trying hard to express herself, and West was back-to.  This witness will be back tomorrow morning.  West intends to go over the video deposition and other inconsistencies, and not enough time left this afternoon.

She claims she was careless in some of her previous answers, being rushed.

She thinks she is done today.  She doesn't want to come back tomorrow, she's planning to go back to Miami, would be my guess.  Bit of tension in the courtroom.

"Do you admit you were asked who was screaming for help, and you answered, 'it could be Trayvon'?"  Bernardo objects, because the answer was incomplete, witness said more.  West reads more from the deposition.  She acknowledges that she made those statements under oath.  West asks if the court can break.  Bernardo says he'd like to get it done now.  Nelson asks how much longer, West says a couple hours.  Witness says "What!"  Nelson tells witness to be quiet.  Jurors instructed to not watch news, etc.  Jury dismissed.

Witness told not to discuss her testimony with anybody, and that includes the lawyers.  Anything else?  No.  Nelson has material to give counsel.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 03:16:49 PM
I don't really blame her.  I think she is trying hard to express herself, and West was back-to.  This witness will be back tomorrow morning.  West intends to go over the video deposition and other inconsistencies, and not enough time left this afternoon.



She may well be. I think that makes it worse.

I'm not sure West was back-to though, I'm fairly certain she's unable to understand what's going on. Were she a defendant she'd be shielded by a diminished capacity plea.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 03:17:24 PM
5:14 PM, recess until 9:00 AM tomorrow.

RJ didn't say a word when Nelson told her she was coming back tomorrow.

Before West started on the 911 call, he said he was going there because there wasn't time for the 3/19 recording or the video of the deposition. Both are for tomorrow.

I can't wait.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 03:18:32 PM


I can't wait.

I fear you're a masochist at heart.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 26, 2013, 03:22:08 PM
Did she admit to any coaching sessions with anybody before the Crump interview?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 03:23:27 PM
I can just hear the anti-Zimmerman crowd, congratulating each other on how the jury must be loving her sassy attitude.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 26, 2013, 03:28:04 PM
I can just hear the anti-Zimmerman crowd, congratulating each other on how the jury must be loving her sassy attitude.

I'm looking forward to how they're going to spin this.  My guess is it'll be a very bare-bones report along the lines of "witness gives gripping account of victims last moments" maybe with a brief mention of West trying desperately to trip her up.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: ding7777 on June 26, 2013, 03:31:02 PM
A friend of RJ didn't have a phone and used her phone. She texted TM pretending to be RJ. Sometimes she texted for RJ, because she was busy.

Did the  friend-sharing-phone  happen on 2/26/2012?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 03:40:07 PM
For some reason I thought she was using 'in the closet' in the metaphorical sense, like there was information she was withholding or something along those lines.

I don't think RJ does metaphors.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 04:00:29 PM
Nelson asks how much longer, West says a couple hours. 

Only a couple of hours? I was thinking they would be on RJ all day tomorrow. There's so much to explore.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 04:16:00 PM
Did the  friend-sharing-phone  happen on 2/26/2012?

I guess that's another question for tomorrow.

Or as West says, we'll come back to that.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 04:30:26 PM
I fear you're a masochist at heart.

Not at all.

Maybe it's telling, that I do lean toward one side of this, that I felt George Zimmerman's performance on Hannity was excruciating, and Rachel Jeantel's performance in the witness box hilarious. But I guess that's what people call 'concern trolling'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 04:49:16 PM
West objected that Bernie mis-stated her testimony.

Nelson answered that if Bernie mis-stated something, the witness could correct him.

Another great moment in courtroom humor.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on June 26, 2013, 04:50:53 PM
She didn't explain why she had to do it from a closet.

I'm guessing it was noisy in the house and she had to find a quiet place -- the same reason she had to shut the bathroom door when talking to TM.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on June 26, 2013, 04:52:55 PM
Rachel Jeantel's performance in the witness box hilarious.

I thought it was hilarious too.  The bit about "I didn't want to be in the closet that long" -- I mean, c'mon.  Who makes that stuff up? 

I do wish they would ask her to read something out loud to the jury.  I'm wondering if she can really read that well when they are asking her to read transcripts.   
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 04:59:14 PM
Not at all.

Maybe it's telling, that I do lean toward one side of this, that I felt George Zimmerman's performance on Hannity was excruciating, and Rachel Jeantel's performance in the witness box hilarious. But I guess that's what people call 'concern trolling'.

Maybe so. I've never been particularly clear on what concern trolling is, honestly. I think I looked it up once. But I'm nowhere near subtle enough to bother with something like that.

That girl gave me a giant headache. More power to you, NM, more power to you!
 ;)

And I'd like to see her have to read something out loud as well.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on June 26, 2013, 05:17:23 PM
I can just hear the anti-Zimmerman crowd, congratulating each other on how the jury must be loving her sassy attitude.

During a break, I checked Twitter and the top tweets were saying that it was great when she told West: You don't understand. The top tweets suggested that people were classist and/or racist if they made fun of her testimony.

My opinion of West changed dramatically when I saw him in the courtroom. I wouldn't be surprised if his plodding is turning off some jurors. I hate to watch tomorrow (but I will).

Rachel seems utterly impeached. Her story has changed multiple ways, and she has pretty much acknowledged that she lies or omits information to get away from unpleasant situations.

Her father is from the Dominican Republic and her mother is from Haiti. West asked her what grade she would be in in the fall and she said 12th grade, I think. So, that would mean she was held back a grade.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 05:20:18 PM
Rachel Jeantel Knock-knock Joke

Knock knock.

  Go away.

Don't you want to know who's there?

  How many times I gotta tell you, I don't care who's there. I don't care who's there!
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 05:42:36 PM
During a break, I checked Twitter and the top tweets were saying that it was great when she told West: You don't understand. The top tweets suggested that people were classist and/or racist if they made fun of her testimony.

My opinion of West changed dramatically when I saw him in the courtroom. I wouldn't be surprised if his plodding is turning off some jurors. I hate to watch tomorrow (but I will).

Rachel seems utterly impeached. Her story has changed multiple ways, and she has pretty much acknowledged that she lies or omits information to get away from unpleasant situations.

Her father is from the Dominican Republic and her mother is from Haiti. West asked her what grade she would be in in the fall and she said 12th grade, I think. So, that would mean she was held back a grade.

I wonder if that's concern trolling?


Supposedly she's attended at least a few college courses. All the bio stuff lists her as studying criminal science or justice.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 05:45:59 PM
Supposedly she's attended at least a few college courses. All the bio stuff lists her as studying criminal science or justice.

I think they may have the wrong girl again.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 05:58:17 PM
I think they may have the wrong girl again.

Taken from her twitter and facebook.

At least according to all the news outlets. The pictures they put with the stories certainly look like her.

ETA: None of which means they aren't wrong or she wasn't fibbing in her social media.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 06:14:59 PM
Jeralyn has a blogpost (http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/6/26/55953/0797/crimenews/Witness-8-Is-Ready-For-Her-Close-Up) on Rachel Jeantel.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 06:35:32 PM
Jeralyn has a blogpost (http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/6/26/55953/0797/crimenews/Witness-8-Is-Ready-For-Her-Close-Up) on Rachel Jeantel.

Thanks. I don't go over there much.

Quote
A minor? She lists her birthday on Facebook as Feb. 1, 1994. As the defense has said, she is 19, and was 18 at the time of the shooting. Even the prosecutor mocked the defense in court for believing she was a minor.

I missed some of the testimony I guess--I didn't see the part where the prosecutor mocked the defense. How could they when they were (however tangential) a part of the lie?

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 06:42:59 PM
I missed some of the testimony I guess--I didn't see the part where the prosecutor mocked the defense.

She's talking about one of the pre-trial hearings, the one when the defense was asking to subpoena W-8's social media. O'Mara said something her being a minor, and de la Rionda went on a bit about how did they know she was a minor and they hadn't presented any evidence she was a minor.

Quote
How could they when they were (however tangential) a part of the lie?

How were they a part of the lie?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Redbrow on June 26, 2013, 06:48:49 PM
Thanks. I don't go over there much.

I missed some of the testimony I guess--I didn't see the part where the prosecutor mocked the defense. How could they when they were (however tangential) a part of the lie?

It happened months ago during a pre- trial hearing.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 26, 2013, 06:51:22 PM
Something just clicked for me. If Jeantel is as uninterested in news as she claims, that precludes the media as a source for memes like the beverage being tea, or the beverage being intended for Chad rather than Martin.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 06:51:44 PM


How were they a part of the lie?

It's why I said "however tangential". I didn't want to say they were terribly complicit, just involved.

They've worked so hard at backing Crump, letting him play his little games of manipulation instead of spending their time and effort actually searching for the truth.

Meh. I'm probably wrong. I just don't think I am.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 07:01:30 PM
It happened months ago during a pre- trial hearing.

I sorta thought if it had happened months ago Jeralyn would've put that in her post, that's what threw me.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 07:04:23 PM
That wasn't a rhetorical question. I was asking because I don't know how they were involved, even tangentially.

I still have a crazy and misguided idea that the prosecution's job is to search for the truth.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on June 26, 2013, 07:09:54 PM
In FL, it's illegal to tape someone without their permission. Crump and Matt Gutman of ABC both taped her telephone conversation with them. But she says she didn't know that Gutman was even in the room when she was talking, and she never gave permission for the tape to be aired. Perhaps ABC will explain it away by saying that Gutman did announce his presence and did explain that he would be airing portions of his tape, and she must have  understood.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: MikeB on June 26, 2013, 07:14:51 PM
I guess I have a question for the anti-Zimmerman people - and I'd like some intellectual honesty if it's possible. If the defense brought out their star witness who took over 2 weeks to say something - and with the family lawyer instead of the police - and was caught in two lies, would you still find that testimony credible?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: vegas on June 26, 2013, 07:28:42 PM
I'm looking forward to how they're going to spin this.  My guess is it'll be a very bare-bones report along the lines of "witness gives gripping account of victims last moments" maybe with a brief mention of West trying desperately to trip her up.
I am watching HLN and their spin is that she is just a kid, a 19 year old kid. I can't imagine her behavior floating with the Moms on the jury. Nor does she look heartbroken or traumatized by this sorrow full event. I think west is doing a great job. I don't find him boring at all and he appears to have brought out the worse in this witness.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: ding7777 on June 26, 2013, 07:36:03 PM
Did Rachel say racist or rapist?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: vegas on June 26, 2013, 07:40:05 PM
Did Rachel say racist or rapist?
I read rapist on CC. Interesting though, one of the HLN commentators notes that white men lawyers know nothing about her life which is probably true, however, no one wants her life story but just the facts.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 07:53:36 PM
Did Rachel say racist or rapist?

rapist.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: vegas on June 26, 2013, 08:11:00 PM
How can it be proper for the Martin's to be crying, carrying on and storming out of the court room? Is this prejudicial to Zimmerman? Shouldn't a decent Judge be stopping this behavior from them or at least keep them out.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Redbrow on June 26, 2013, 08:11:31 PM
Today she testified that she NEVER watches the news except for weather, yet she tweeted about CNN and HLN.

Quote
Quote
Later that day she wrote, "CNN and HLN is killing me bro.” Both cable networks have been offering extensive coverage of the Zimmerman case, which concluded jury selection last week.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on June 26, 2013, 08:12:27 PM
Jeantel testified that she thought it was a (non-deadly) fight and that TM's father would come out and help him. It's strange that she and TM talked so much and he never mentioned that his father was not at home.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Redbrow on June 26, 2013, 08:14:36 PM
Jeantel testified that she thought it was a (non-deadly) fight and that TM's father would come out and help him. It's strange that she and TM talked so much and he never mentioned that his father was not at home.

She also stated she heard people in the background who she thought would help him out or something.



18:11 – He had already told me he was by hisself at home so . . .
18:12 – I thought his father was gonna help him . . .
18:14 – And I did hear . . . like . . . sounds from the background if people could help him . . .
18:17 – So, I never thought it was that . . . deadly serious.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on June 26, 2013, 08:18:06 PM
Rene Stutzman has tweeted that RJ's "stint on witness stand like none I've ever seen. Jurors interrupted cause they [can't] hear. Ditto court reporter. Very hard to understand." Keep in mind that Rene has covered courts for a number of years.

Because the cameras never show the jury, I didn't realize that jurors were calling out to ask what she had said. Apparently, Nelson told them they couldn't ask questions, but they could raise their questions if they couldn't hear.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 26, 2013, 08:25:20 PM
I still have a crazy and misguided idea that the prosecution's job is to search for the truth.
You mean after all my efforts, you are still ignorant about what the adversary system is all about?   :(
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 26, 2013, 08:34:57 PM
You mean after all my efforts, you are still ignorant about what the adversary system is all about?   :(

 ;) Ricky.
 ;D
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: jjr495 on June 26, 2013, 09:52:21 PM
RJ's situation is truly sad. She is in desperate need of her own strong legal counsel. It is apparent that Crump, the Martins, ABC, and probably the State are more than willing use her with little regard for her welfare. She admitted to several lies under oath in open court today. She will find it very difficult to return to her peers at school. Further, the defense has no choice but to continue to impeach her.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on June 27, 2013, 12:13:29 AM
Something just clicked for me. If Jeantel is as uninterested in news as she claims, that precludes the media as a source for memes like the beverage being tea, or the beverage being intended for Chad rather than Martin.

It does not, however, preclude having those details deliberately fed to her by someone who wanted her to tell a certain story a certain way.

Not saying that it did happen, but it's within the realm of the possible.

Or maybe Trayvon called anything with the AriZona brand on it tea.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on June 27, 2013, 12:13:57 AM
Only a couple of hours? I was thinking they would be on RJ all day tomorrow. There's so much to explore.

This is just cross, wait'll she finds out she has to come back for a whole 'nother session when called by the defense for direct (which is when they'll be doing most of their exploring, I suspect).
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: ding7777 on June 27, 2013, 05:38:39 AM
How could TM id GZ (while still in his truck) as a "creepy azz cracka" if it was a dark and rainy night? And did GZ's truck have tinted windows?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 05:47:27 AM
How could TM id GZ (while still in his truck) as a "creepy azz cracka" if it was a dark and rainy night?

RATL has streetlights. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/sets/72157631083078146/)

You may have noticed that when the lawyers want to make the point of how dark it was in the area where TM was shot, they often ask the witness if there were any streetlights or 'pole lights' in that backyard area between the buildings.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: cboldt on June 27, 2013, 05:59:37 AM
How could TM id GZ (while still in his truck) as a "creepy azz cracka" if it was a dark and rainy night? And did GZ's truck have tinted windows?

The timing of his making that remark to W8 is indefinite, relative to remarks made by Zimmerman.  Zimmerman reports that Martin was staring at him, that he came closer, and in some accounts, that Martin circled the truck.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 06:00:38 AM
RJ's situation is truly sad. She is in desperate need of her own strong legal counsel. It is apparent that Crump, the Martins, ABC, and probably the State are more than willing use her with little regard for her welfare. She admitted to several lies under oath in open court today. She will find it very difficult to return to her peers at school. Further, the defense has no choice but to continue to impeach her.

What makes you believe this? Glancing through her social media as provided by Jeralyn in her blog post, it's pretty obvious she doesn't care about anything in particular, worse, the whole thing is nothing but a joke to her. Her own testimony indicates that, to say nothing of the social media.

I also don't believe she's in school, she may have attended a few college classes. But that's my own opinion.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 06:01:03 AM
RATL has streetlights. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/sets/72157631083078146/)

You may have noticed that when the lawyers want to make the point of how dark it was in the area where TM was shot, they often ask the witness if there were any streetlights or 'pole lights' in that backyard area between the buildings.
I am surprised that the prosecution also emphasized that.  I wonder why the cut through was so dark even though there seems to be a light across TTL at its start.  I thought Martin saw Zimmerman closeup at the clubhouse.  Is that well lit at night?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 06:33:16 AM
I wonder why the cut through was so dark even though there seems to be a light across TTL at its start. 

This photo (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/7879890510/in/set-72157631083078146) is my guess at the effect of the TTL streetlight on the cut-through.

There is another streetlight on RVC. I haven't tried to estimate its effect.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 06:47:37 AM
Some time ago I did a series of posts on the differences between the 3/19/12 Crump interview and the 4/2 SAO interview. The first post (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2022.msg106911.html#msg106911) has links.

It was shortly after this that ABC released a 5-minute clip of a previously unknown part of the 3/19 interview. I did another post (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2022.msg107294.html#msg107294) to include it in the comparative analysis.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on June 27, 2013, 06:53:32 AM
Her father is from the Dominican Republic and her mother is from Haiti. West asked her what grade she would be in in the fall and she said 12th grade, I think. So, that would mean she was held back a grade

Haitians immigrate to the DR. Her French last name would indicate that her Father is most likely of Haitian descent. Not that its relevant to anything.. I was 17 when I entered 12th grade.  She's 2 years behind
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:01:42 AM
 9:01 AM

Rachel Jeantel is on the stand. The jury is coming in.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:05:18 AM
West is back on 'What are you talking about?'
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 07:05:57 AM
I was sort of hoping she was serious when she said she wasn't coming back. This trial needs some drama.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:08:45 AM
Bernie has objected twice.

West is asking about the 3/19 letter to Sybrina. He is establishing when lawyers on both sides learned of it.

The letter is being entered into evidence.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:10:12 AM
Bernie asked for a sidebar. He didn't object to entering the letter in evidence. I think he is objecting to West asking any questions about it.

ETA: Looks like Tracy is asleep.

West gave RJ the letter.

The friend who helped her write the letter is Francine Surv (sp?)

RJ says she can't read cursive.

RJ signed the letter 'Diamond Eugene'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 07:11:51 AM
Choppy sound, Francine Cerf helped her with the letter?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 07:13:17 AM
Choppy sound, Francine Cerf helped her with the letter?

Something like that yes.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 27, 2013, 07:13:49 AM
Francine Surt (phonetic spelling) wrote the letter. It's becoming obvious that Ms. Jeantel is functionally illiterate. She asserts she "doesn't read cursive." She asserts she can read typewritten words but sounds unsure.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:14:28 AM
She can read the date.

West is reading the letter. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/8599626143/)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:15:10 AM
Bernie objects to an error. West offered to let Bernie read it. He declined. West continues to read.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 27, 2013, 07:16:03 AM
The letter is signed Diamond Eugene. Eugene is her mother's last name.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 07:18:01 AM
Sundance claims that Francine Serve is correct.  She is a Facebook friend of Sybrina Fulton.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:18:21 AM
RJ told Sybrina GZ said 'What you doing around here', then quickly corrected to 'What are you doing around here'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:19:08 AM
West pressing RJ on whether she is sure of what was said.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:21:47 AM
West has abruptly gone to talking about RJ saying to Crump something about thinking it was 'a racial thing'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on June 27, 2013, 07:22:08 AM
Francine Surt (phonetic spelling) wrote the letter. It's becoming obvious that Ms. Jeantel is functionally illiterate. She asserts she "doesn't read cursive." She asserts she can read typewritten words but sounds unsure.

Do Schools even teach cursive anymore?  She tweets regularly. She's of the keyboard generation.
She writes in slang and at least once in Hatian Creole. She can read.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 07:23:18 AM
I wonder if West will get to the important stuff.  Who approached whom?  How did she know that Trayvon turned around?  Did Trayvon really say, "Get off, get off"?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 07:23:43 AM
Do Schools even teach cursive anymore?  She tweets regularly. She's of the keyboard generation.
She writes in slang and at least once in Hatian Creole. She can read.

I'm not sure I'd hold up her tweets as evidence that she's not functionally illiterate.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:24:48 AM
RJ thought the story wasn't in the news before 3/19/12.

She repeats that she doesn't watch news.

West asks if she got some demeanor coaching last night. She says she went to sleep.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:26:41 AM
RJ says she thought it was a racial thing because of 'how the situation happened'.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:29:00 AM
West pressing on RJ not being there, everything is what TM said or her interpretations. Bernie objects 'argumentative'. Nelson overrules.

West asks what TM said to make her think it was racial. She said it was TM's description of GZ.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:30:10 AM
RJ didn't tell Sybrina about 'creepy ass cracker'. West is enjoying repeating the phrase.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 27, 2013, 07:31:30 AM
The state has obviously coached the "no-one asked me" line. Every witness uses it on impeachment.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:35:12 AM
TM's parents didn't know RJ's real name.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:36:48 AM
West is nailing RJ down on her not contacting law enforcement.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 07:37:53 AM
Bernie looks like something on his shoe smells really bad.

She never got a phone call because she turned her phone off. But when she turned it back on she'd get her calls and texts.

If this girl wasn't involved in railroading an innocent man--IMO--I'd almost feel sorry for her.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:41:34 AM
RJ told someone at ABC that she wanted to be 'DeeDee' in the press.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:42:35 AM
West asking about 4/2/12 SAO interview.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on June 27, 2013, 07:44:24 AM
Bernie looks like something on his shoe smells really bad.

She never got a phone call because she turned her phone off. But when she turned it back on she'd get her calls and texts.

If this girl wasn't involved in railroading an innocent man--IMO--I'd almost feel sorry for her.
Ditto
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:44:56 AM
RJ says Sybrina was sitting beside her on 4/2.

Bernie objects to West repeating RJ's answers. Sustained.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:46:44 AM
Tracy left the room before the interview started. RJ doesn't know if he left the house.

RJ says Natalie Jackson was present.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:47:23 AM

RJ says the place they came and got her from was a friend's house.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 07:47:36 AM
She's starting to roll her eyes and so forth. The next hour is going to be interesting.

I'm a little shocked (not really) that Nelson wouldn't give West a little extra latitude when dealing with this girl--being precise helps the poor court reporter.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 27, 2013, 07:47:58 AM
Do Schools even teach cursive anymore?

Yes. My daughter transitioned from printed letter to cursive in 4th grade and this year all of her language and lit assignments had to be written in cursive. Metro curriculum could well differ - we're semi-rural but have a pretty progressive curriculum.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:48:28 AM
RJ says two cars came for her. Crump was in one.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 07:52:20 AM
Why is Nelson taking out her aggravation with RJ on West?

Bernie doesn't look comfortable as they get closer to the Trayvon Family and Crump and their involvement with LE.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 27, 2013, 07:53:00 AM
TC O'Steen's name keeps coming up when the impeachment starts getting hot.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 07:55:14 AM
Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 7m
That is highly unusual. I have never heard of the alleged victim's family sitting in on a witness interview in 32 years.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:55:37 AM
RJ alluded to 'a bald-headed dude'. West indicated Bernie and asked if she meant him. She was embarrassed and apologized. Bernie was smiling.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 07:57:03 AM
RJ alluded to 'a bald-headed dude'. West indicated Bernie and asked if she meant him. She was embarrassed and apologized. Bernie was smiling.

It didn't look like a happy smile though, to me.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 07:59:18 AM
It didn't look like a happy smile though, to me.

I thought it was amused and indulgent.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 08:01:05 AM
RJ said Sybrina wasn't crying, but was tearing up some.

West is being very sympathetic, asking about RJ's feelings about doing the interview with Sybrina beside her.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 08:02:52 AM
West onto how 'get off' was new on 4/2.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 08:03:00 AM
I thought it was amused and indulgent.

Maybe so.

I've also noticed him smiling when she's delivering answers that are hurting his case and his credibility, and I saw him smiling when she was trying to figure out how to speak into the microphone, so I figure he's smiling so he won't look ugly, because I'm sure he's been told that he tends to look ugly and that doesn't play well.


But who knows right?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 08:05:15 AM
RJ is using the 'wasn't asked' excuse. But I recall that she told Crump something else about the last thing she heard before the phone shut off.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 08:07:47 AM
RJ says she didn't think 'get off' was important.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 08:10:56 AM
West still pressing on RJ not telling Crump about 'get off'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 08:12:05 AM
RJ went back to the 'rush' excuse.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 08:14:48 AM
RJ felt she didn't have to tell Crump the truth because he isn't LE.

RJ says she told TM's parents that if they got LE to contact her she would tell the whole story.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 27, 2013, 08:15:20 AM
West throws his pen at podium in disgust over objections.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 08:16:04 AM
RJ said she didn't expect the interview to be at the mother's house, with the mother.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 08:16:15 AM
Bernie is trying hard to keep her from talking. He makes stupid objection after objection. West just flung his pen onto the podium. I think Nelson might have gotten the message--the next couple of times Bernie objected she didn't sustain, once I didn't even hear her say anything.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 27, 2013, 08:17:37 AM
Seriously?

Yes
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 08:24:35 AM
Ok, so it now is dubious that she really heard "get off, get off".  Now how did she know GZ ran towards TM rather than the other way around?; how did she know TM turned around before asking, why are you following me?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on June 27, 2013, 08:29:44 AM
West: "Let me take it a little bit slower." No, please God, no!!
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on June 27, 2013, 08:31:06 AM
She agrees that "run from the back" means to run from TM's current position toward the back of the townhouse.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 08:31:28 AM
West is being brilliant here.
Easy to see why he's such a well regarded attorney.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 08:33:01 AM
West: "Let me take it a little bit slower." No, please God, no!!

You don't have to listen. West is doing exactly what needs to be done. I'm riveted.

ETA: In all my hours of studying her pre-trial interviews, this is what I've been longing to hear, for someone to nail her down.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 08:33:10 AM
Ok, so it now is dubious that she really heard "get off, get off".  Now how did she know GZ ran towards TM rather than the other way around?; how did she know TM turned around before asking, why are you following me?

Probably, for the same reason she 'heard' TM fall into wet grass, projecting later speculation/media narratives she heard of the confrontation onto her recollection of the phone call.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 08:36:49 AM
I get the feeling someone talked to RJ about her demeanor, she seems much more stoic today.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 08:38:44 AM
What's the best feed? I was watching the wild about trial feed but it kept cutting out so I shifted to wftv 9 but they're a little annoying.


NatJack says they got RJ one of the best attorneys in the area...why does she need a stellar atty?

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 08:40:20 AM
The talking head experts on channel 9 are saying it's obvious someone got to her about her demeanor and the legal expert (didn't catch his name) said that's borderline no-no but by West asking the question it's out in the open now.


Heh. Channel 9 is now picking apart Crump's news conference and showing the lies. Is the worm turning?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 08:47:42 AM
What's the best feed? I was watching the wild about trial feed but it kept cutting out so I shifted to wftv 9 but they're a little annoying.

I open WFTV and ClickOrlando in tabs, and switch between them. Today ClickOrlando was losing audio, so I'm on WFTV.

The WFTV talking heads are worthless as analysts in my opinion, but they sometimes have good breaking news or background. It was from them that I learned of the four seats reserved for pastors.

ETA: For those not familiar with WFTV, I should add that the talking heads are only on when there is no audio from the courtroom. They don't talk over the proceedings.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 08:55:04 AM
I get the feeling someone talked to RJ about her demeanor, she seems much more stoic today.

I don't have much doubt someone got to her. The change in her demeanor is too great not to have an explanation. The only alternatives I can think of would be that she's bipolar, or something that would get this post deleted.

I don't think it's improper. Her courtroom demeanor isn't a part or aspect of the case.

I'm a little disappointed. The Wild Child was fun.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 08:56:49 AM

I'm a little disappointed. The Wild Child was fun.

Yeah, it spiced up what would have been a very trying testimony to listen to.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: jjr495 on June 27, 2013, 08:58:03 AM
It is very helpful to have the defense's timeline (http://gzdocs.com/documents/opening_graphics/timeline.jpg) open while the State's version of events is shredded.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 08:58:15 AM
Talking heads on WFTV say it's very borderline if someone got to her as her persona is part of her testimony.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 09:03:06 AM
Nelson: don't snark at me when I sustain Bernies objections
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: ding7777 on June 27, 2013, 09:04:06 AM
I don't have much doubt someone got to her. The change in her demeanor is too great not to have an explanation. The only alternatives I can think of would be that she's bipolar, or something that would get this post deleted.

I don't think it's improper. Her courtroom demeanor isn't a part or aspect of the case.

I'm a little disappointed. The Wild Child was fun.

Isn't demeanor part of the jury instruction to determine truthfulness of testimony?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 09:04:35 AM
Nelson: don't snark at me when I sustain Bernies objections

huh?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 09:06:30 AM
huh?

Just a reference to her decision to have an impromptu refresher on the rules of objections.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 09:11:34 AM
Just a reference to her decision to have an impromptu refresher on the rules of objections.

She was answering a question from the jury I believe, because when she got done reading it she looked toward the jury and said "does that answer your question?"
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 27, 2013, 09:13:18 AM
That was like a 10-megaton question right there. Wow.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 09:14:10 AM
She was answering a question from the jury I believe, because when she got done reading it she looked toward the jury and said "does that answer your question?"

My bad, I had the audio feed but the video was clogged up.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 27, 2013, 09:14:30 AM
You didn't know that Zimmerman hit Martin, did you? It could just as easily of been Martin driving his fist into Zimmerman's face?

A: Yes, sir.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 09:20:44 AM
This method of comparing versions takes too damn long.  The defense should have had exhibits ready where they were compared.  Now can you imagine how long it is going to take to compare the different Zimmerman versions of each event?  One thing you can say for the prosecution is that they seem better at presentation of evidence than the defense.  Their problem is that their evidence isn't very good.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 09:23:21 AM
RJ disputes the accuracy of the transcription of her statement that she "could've" heard Trayvon: "trust me they messed up"
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 09:24:27 AM
The part of 4/2 they are wrangling over is one I always transcribed as 'unintelligible'. They are arguing 'could hear' vs. 'coulda heard', or something like that.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Redbrow on June 27, 2013, 09:25:20 AM
Why does Bernie get to interrupt and talk over West with impunity?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on June 27, 2013, 09:30:52 AM
She doesn't speak "proper English."  This has to be hard on the court reporters. 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 09:35:38 AM
I think I heard "couldn't hear". I noticed she was speaking much more clearly and loudly there though.


Heh. Redirect could be fun.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 09:36:09 AM
This method of comparing versions takes too damn long.  The defense should have had exhibits ready where they were compared.  Now can you imagine how long it is going to take to compare the different Zimmerman versions of each event?  One thing you can say for the prosecution is that they seem better at presentation of evidence than the defense.  Their problem is that their evidence isn't very good.

I think that's the paradox of the defense's situation, the evidence is on their side, but the evidence presents a complicated picture of what happened so incorporating it into a narrative is difficult. 

The prosecution, although lacking evidence, has a paint-by-the-numbers narrative. They only have to relay how a particular witness testimony or piece of evidence goes into one of three slots, (1) Profiling (2)Stalking (3)(alleged) unlawful killing. Rinse and repeat.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: cboldt on June 27, 2013, 09:41:36 AM
Heh. Redirect could be fun.

Leading question time.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 09:47:57 AM
Nice, finally getting to the recording.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 09:49:14 AM
The defense would make it much clearer if they emphasized:

1. Which versions had Get off, Get off and how does she know who said it?
2. How does she know TM turned around to question GZ?
3. At the beginning of the final call, Trayvon was by his father's house.  How long was the call?  What was going on between the beginning and TM and GZ meeting up?
4. Who was going towards whom?  How does she know GZ was moving towards TM rather than TM moving towards GZ.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 09:53:32 AM
RJ demonstrates the flexibility of the English language.  First statement was that she could only hear a little bit because the head set "get off", then secondly that she could hear a little bit of (someone saying) "get off get off"
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on June 27, 2013, 09:56:23 AM
RJ demonstrates the flexibility of the English language.  First statement was that she could only hear a little bit because the head set "get off", then secondly that she could hear a little bit of (someone saying) "get off get off"

She says the phone call "ended."  It sounded like "enit."  It probably will be transcribed as "in it."  Oh boy!  The language really is flexible!  :)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 09:57:32 AM
West asked RJ to describe the sound of grass. That's another moment many of us have been waiting for.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 09:59:14 AM
West is the picture of patience.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 09:59:50 AM
West asked RJ to describe the sound of grass. That's another moment many of us have been waiting for.

And she looked at him like he was retarded too.

I just can't stop chuckling anymore. She and West are both losing IQ points by the minute.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 10:01:05 AM
She admitted the sound could have been a thousand things other than someone rolling on the ground.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: cboldt on June 27, 2013, 10:03:39 AM
Can you tell me how "wet grass" sounds?

Puzzled looks from W8.

She says like people rolling around.  Bernardo objects.  W8 is fidgiting.

West probes, what is the sound you heard that led you to the conclusion that people were rolling around?  He demonstrates brushing against a microphone.  She admits that could have been it.

She doesn't  know the time intervals.  More confusion, correlating the relationship between her fixing her hair, and various points in the phone conversations.  I think (but I'm confused right now too) she said she was paying undivided attention at the time the "get off get off" happened.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 10:05:30 AM
RJ maintains that although she was doing her hair while talking to him, her attention picked up at the critical moments of the confrontation.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: cboldt on June 27, 2013, 10:07:51 AM
She and West are both losing IQ points by the minute.

Definitely a clash of thinking and communication styles.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on June 27, 2013, 10:09:20 AM
Did she just say "That's real retarded sir"? 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 10:10:41 AM
West is moving on to why RJ didn't tell anyone.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 10:11:00 AM
Did she just say "That's real retarded sir"?

Yes. She's losing patience. And there's still more time left for the poor kid.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 10:11:10 AM
Did she just say "That's real retarded sir"?

Yes.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 10:11:38 AM
Did she just say "That's real retarded sir"?

I think so, this kind of fits with the theory that someone gave her a little emergency coaching, something along the lines of "when in doubt just put 'sir' on the end"
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 10:12:13 AM
West is on 'couple of minutes'.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 10:14:44 AM
West keeps saying RJ said TM 'approached' GZ, which I don't think is true. Every time, Bernie objects and Nelson sustains.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 10:15:00 AM
RJ disputes West's conjecture that Martin could have been standing still and the wind could have been blowing into the headset.  She's definite that the wind sound in the head set could only have meant that Martin was on the move.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 10:19:22 AM
RJ denies admitting that it could have been TM hitting GZ a couple of minutes ago to west, "you [didn't] get that from me"
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 10:22:56 AM
RJ says that TM would have told her if he was going to start a confrontation with GZ.

West asks how she knows this.  He then asks if TM has ever indicated such an intention to her in the past that would give her some sort of reference.

Big objection from Bernie.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Redbrow on June 27, 2013, 10:24:05 AM
Yes. She's losing patience. And there's still more time left for the poor kid.

Kid? No need to patronize her. She is a grown woman willfully engaged in deception and hostility.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 10:25:43 AM
It seems to me RJ opened a door wide. I don't know why West can't go through it, but it seems Nelson must have ruled against him. He went back to asking about RJ not telling anyone.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 10:26:28 AM
West is moving on to Bernie asking her on 4/2 if TM said he saw GZ get out of the car.

ETA: RJ wants to see the transcript.

ETA 2: She says she doesn't remember.  West says play the recording.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 10:27:11 AM
Kid? No need to patronize her. She is a grown woman willfully engaged in deception and hostility.

Apparently you have no ability to comprehend sarcasm. I'd think my other posts re her would've tipped you off just a trifle.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 10:28:57 AM
So why wouldn't West be able to ask her how she knows TM would've hung up on her if he was going to fight or attack GZ?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 10:29:03 AM
It seems to me RJ opened a door wide. I don't know why West can't go through it, but it seems Nelson must have ruled against him. He went back to asking about RJ not telling anyone.

That's what I kind of thought too, I mean why is she allowed to make these broad assertions about TM's behavior buttressed by phrases like "trust me" and "I just know" and West isn't allowed to explore where any of that knowledge comes from?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on June 27, 2013, 10:32:47 AM
Apparently you have no ability to comprehend sarcasm. I'd think my other posts re her would've tipped you off just a trifle.



I understand sarcasm.......Sir. :D
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 10:34:19 AM
During the period between Feb. 26 and the interview with BDLR (April 2) did you take any notes or write any tweets or texts about what Trayvon said to you and what you heard before the phone hung up?  West hasn't asked that, has he? 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: cboldt on June 27, 2013, 10:38:03 AM
I do not know who you are or follow your other posts. You must fancy yourself some kind of celebrity poster or something?

Objection.  Improper form.  "You must fancy yourself some kind of celebrity poster or something? SIR."
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 10:38:21 AM
Nelson has a transcript with an answer recorded as unintelligible. Defense said state has a different transcript with an answer. Bernie said he was looking for it.

ETA: Sidebar.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 10:38:36 AM
I do not know who you are or follow your other posts. You must fancy yourself some kind of celebrity poster or something?

Well you picked a great one to read for your first time!  ;D
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 10:39:25 AM
Bernie's slow walking his transcript to the bench, "this ones dirty" "ok here we go, oops wrong page", suddenly finds himself disorganized and unable to find the requested page.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 10:39:32 AM
Objection.  Improper form.  "You must fancy yourself some kind of celebrity poster or something? SIR."

#sharp!
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 10:43:16 AM
It would have been illuminating for West to ask Rachel, How do you know GZ approached TM rather than TM approached GZ?  Instead he got argumentative and said TM approached GZ to start a fight.  This is a perfect example why I think adversarial trials suck.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 10:46:24 AM
12:44 PM

Nelson admonishing jury.

Jury dismissed, presumably to lunch, 12:45 PM.

Recess 12:45 PM to 1:45 PM.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 10:47:29 AM
It would have been illuminating for West to ask Rachel, How do you know GZ approached TM rather than TM approached GZ?  Instead he got argumentative and said TM approached GZ to start a fight.  This is a perfect example why I think adversarial trials suck.

I think if he had asked her that she would have responded with something like "I just know sir, he wouldn't just go and do something like that sir."  It looks like she's been instructed, unlike yesterday, to keep her answers as brief, combative and unhelpful as possible.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 10:51:41 AM
I think if he had asked her that she would have responded with something like "I just know sir, he wouldn't just go and do something like that sir."  It looks like she's been instructed, unlike yesterday, to keep her answers as brief, combative and unhelpful as possible.
That would have been a great answer for the defense.  After being at his father's house at the beginning of the call, she heard wind noises indicating to her TM was moving.  The defense tells the jury, there is absolutely no evidence, no reliable testimony, that GZ ran after and caught TM.  I just don't understand why he doesn't also ask why didn't he go in the house.  I am now firmly in the West is a bumbling fool camp.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on June 27, 2013, 10:54:01 AM
SPECULATION ALERT:

The questioned quote is Ms. Jeanel asking BDLR "Do you want that too?"

West is trying to establish coaching.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: ding7777 on June 27, 2013, 10:54:48 AM
I don't know why some commentators are expressing sympathy for RJ for length of time on the stand. Many of her answers had to be repeated for clarity.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 10:57:50 AM
I don't know why some commentators are expressing sympathy for RJ for length of time on the stand. Many of her answers had to be repeated for clarity.

This, plus the number of times the story has changed, leading to a new line of questioning.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on June 27, 2013, 11:11:21 AM
This is the whole heart of the case.   Did Trayvon assault George?  Who is more believable -- RJ or GZ?  West needs to get this right. 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 11:37:30 AM
I took advantage of the lunch break to find where Crump asked Jeantel about the last thing she heard before the phone went dead. Crump tripped over his tongue and said 'after', but I think the intention is clear

Jeantel/Crump, 3/19/12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OxXvVTVZpI0#t=11m58s)
Quote
Crump: After the phone went dead, the last thing you heard was, he asked Trayvon again what he was doing there?
Jeantel: 'What are you doing around here?'

I've missed a lot today, but my impression is that West has missed this. Against Jeantel's 'wasn't asked' excuse, he used every tactic except the simplest, and, I would think, most devastating. It just isn't true. She was asked. Her 4/2/12 'Get off, get off,' isn't just an embellishment. It's an outright contradiction.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 11:42:47 AM
Why would she look disapprovingly at West when the witness lied?

I think some of the reporters have agendas.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: leftwig on June 27, 2013, 11:43:26 AM
I took advantage of the lunch break to find where Crump asked Jeantel about the last thing she heard before the phone went dead. Crump tripped over his tongue and said 'after', but I think the intention is clear

Jeantel/Crump, 3/19/12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OxXvVTVZpI0#t=11m58s)
I've missed a lot today, but my impression is that West has missed this. Against Jeantel's 'wasn't asked' excuse, he used every tactic except the simplest, and, I would think, most devastating. It just isn't true. She was asked. Her 4/2/12 'Get off, get off,' isn't just an embellishment. It's an outright contradiction.

She's already said multiple times that the Crump interview didn't mean anything to her, but it wouldn't be bad for the defense to throw out yet another inconsistency.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 11:43:45 AM
Mr West, just get these in and quit:

1. During Feb. 26 and April 2 of 2012, did you commit any of your recollections of Trayvon's last minutes to writing, for example, texts or tweets?  In that time period, whom have you orally discussed your recollections of Feb 26 with?  Have any asked you to say you remember certain things happening?
2.  At the beginning of the final call with Trayvon, he was at his father's house and he kept moving.  Why didn't he go right in?
3.  How do you know George Zimmerman moved towards Trayvon rather than Trayvon going towards GZ?
4.  How do you know Trayvon turned  around to ask Zimmerman why he was following him?
5.  Since you think the headset with microphone was out of place when you think you heard faintly, "Get off, get off", how can you be sure it was TM rather than GZ speaking?  How well do you know Mr. Zimmerman's voice?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 11:51:16 AM
West is going after 'You want that, too?'
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 11:53:03 AM
They played the recording without the jury. Nelson is saying they can't play it for the jury because RJ didn't deny saying it.

ETA: West said she did deny. Nelson said that doesn't count because she hadn't been shown a transcript. West said she was shown a transcript. Nelson ruled against playing it for the jury.

Jury coming back.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 11:58:22 AM
She's already said multiple times that the Crump interview didn't mean anything to her,

So what? Prior statements can be introduced for impeachment. A witness doesn't get out of that by saying some magic words.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 11:58:28 AM
West looks like he's about to lose his patience with Nelson.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 11:59:51 AM
They played the recording without the jury. Nelson is saying they can't play it for the jury because RJ didn't deny saying it.

ETA: West said she did deny. Nelson said that doesn't count because she hadn't been shown a transcript. West said she was shown a transcript. Nelson ruled against playing it for the jury.

Jury coming back.
I don't get it, Nelson doesn't let him play it specifically because she says RJ didn't get a transcript, West argues convincingly that she did, in fact, see two transcripts with the statement on it, Nelson doesn't challenge West's assertion but rules against him anyway.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 12:00:17 PM
West is done. Bernie on redirect.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 12:04:17 PM
Bernie is asking about the 3/19/12 letter (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/8599626143/) to Sybrina.

RJ sounds as impatient with Bernie's questions as she was with West's.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 12:05:23 PM


Reports from the media seem to indicate that the jurors are agreeing.

 bob kealing ‏@bobkealing 1h [12:38]
E-13 arms folded. Even E-6 is over it now. Lunch anyone?

 Tony Pipitone ‏@TonyPipitone 1h [12:38]
Juror 5 shakes head and looks disapprovingly at West when he claimed #RachelJeantel previously testified she could've heard TM hit GZ.

I don't think Juror 5's disapproval was directed at West. She clearly did do that was pretty obvious.  Only about 15 minutes had elapsed between the point at which she admitted it and the point and which she denied that same admission. 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on June 27, 2013, 12:06:18 PM
Spanish and Creole are RJ's first languages. 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 12:07:05 PM
Nelson gives Bernie latitude but refused to give West any.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 12:09:35 PM
RJ says she still lives in Miami.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 12:10:29 PM
She's overruling ever West objection.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 12:12:07 PM
West questioning her on English as a third language claim.  I'm curious myself, I've heard nothing in her voice/accent that indicates a preference for Creole or Spanish.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 12:13:16 PM
Spanish and Creole are RJ's first languages.

She says all three (adding English) were first and she's spoken English her whole life and she knows English very well.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 12:13:32 PM
West on re-cross. He's asking RJ about her early linguistic experience.

Q: Does RJ have difficulty understanding spoken English because it isn't her first language?

A: She understands English well.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 12:14:02 PM
She says creepy ass cracka means pervert.
Or maybe it's just the creepy part. She lost me.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Redbrow on June 27, 2013, 12:14:15 PM
Spanish and Creole are RJ's first languages.

Relevance even if true? If they are she claiming is not fluent in English, they should have required the use of a translator from the beginning. My hunch is that she would understand and speak creole and Spanish even less than English
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on June 27, 2013, 12:16:32 PM
Did they ever ask her when TM first noticed GZ following him? 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 12:16:38 PM
Relevance even if true? If they are she claiming is not fluent in English, they should have required the use of a translator from the beginning. My hunch is that she would understand and speak creole and Spanish even less than English

Relevance would appear to be that because of her background she might say, hear or understand things a little differently.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 12:17:46 PM
My hunch is that she would understand and speak creole and Spanish even less than English

This is my hunch as well, a quick litmus test would be the presence of some Spanish or Creole in her twitter account or text messages.  My understanding is that it's all in English as far as we know.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 12:17:54 PM
West wants to keep RJ under subpoena in case they want to recall her. Nelson asked if he wanted her kept in Seminole County. He countered that it would be enough to recall her at the end of the day. I'm thinking he wants to introduce something specific before recalling her. Anyway, Nelson called sidebar.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on June 27, 2013, 12:19:12 PM
Relevance even if true? If they are she claiming is not fluent in English, they should have required the use of a translator from the beginning. My hunch is that she would understand and speak creole and Spanish even less than English

My hunch is she speaks Creole best since it is her mother's language.  She probably translates things for her mother. 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 12:19:23 PM
This is my hunch as well, a quick litmus test would be the presence of some Spanish or Creole in her twitter account or text messages.  My understanding is that it's all in English as far as we know.

Ignatius D. has posted that there were tweets in Creole.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 12:21:16 PM
The prosecution comes across as more coherent despite the fact they don't have good evidence.  The reason is that they go in chronological order.  West should have started at the 711 and gone to the last call cutoff having all her descriptions of intermediate events in front of him.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 12:23:18 PM
2:23 PM

It looks like RJ is leaving. No audio from courtroom.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 12:24:24 PM
Yes. Nelson told her she was still under subpoena blah blah.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on June 27, 2013, 12:31:29 PM
This is my hunch as well, a quick litmus test would be the presence of some Spanish or Creole in her twitter account or text messages.  My understanding is that it's all in English as far as we know.


No she has at least one tweet where she uses Creole .
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 12:38:15 PM

No she has at least one tweet where she uses Creole .

What would you say was the overall ratio of French to English?  People are lazy when they tweet things, if she's more comfortable/fluent in creole I'd expect a lot of creole/french words as it blends into English pretty naturally.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on June 27, 2013, 12:38:50 PM
I don't recall anyone mentioning this, but she said ABC did a separate interview in which she was taped. Weren't we all under the impression that Matt Gutman taped her at the same time that she was talking on the phone to Crump?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: TalkLeft on June 27, 2013, 12:40:06 PM
Choppy sound, Francine Cerf helped her with the letter?

I think it is Francine ServJohnson. She's on FB as a friend of Rachels.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on June 27, 2013, 12:42:50 PM
What would you say was the overall ratio of French to English?  People are lazy when they tweet things, if she's more comfortable/fluent in creole I'd expect a lot of creole/french words as it blends into English pretty naturally.

If her friends don't speak Creole, why would she tweet in Creole?  It's impossible to look at someone's tweets (in the USA) to determine their first/best language.  I live in a hugely multilingual area and most people tweet in English even if their native language is something else.  That's because, almost everyone knows at least a little English.   
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 12:43:48 PM

You didn't know that Zimmerman hit Martin, did you? It could just as easily of been Martin driving his fist into Zimmerman's face?

A: Yes, sir.

RJ denies admitting that it could have been TM hitting GZ a couple of minutes ago to west, "you [didn't] get that from me"

Just to highlight the exchange in question.  Obviously the live-blogging times aren't perfect but this gives an approximate timeframe. To correct my previous post it was closer to an hour between the admission and denial.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: TalkLeft on June 27, 2013, 12:46:14 PM
Thanks NM. When you say talking heads, who do you mean? The legal expert, guy with the beard who's name I didn't catch?

He's currently talking about the unraveling of the case because of RJ's testimony.

please don't bring talking head comments here. This is for your thoughts, not theirs,  and they are not authoritative. 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: TalkLeft on June 27, 2013, 12:47:30 PM
I don't recall anyone mentioning this, but she said ABC did a separate interview in which she was taped. Weren't we all under the impression that Matt Gutman taped her at the same time that she was talking on the phone to Crump?

Matt Gutman said he spoke to her several times that week. It's in here and on TalkLeft's main site as well.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on June 27, 2013, 12:48:11 PM
What would you say was the overall ratio of French to English?  People are lazy when they tweet things, if she's more comfortable/fluent in creole I'd expect a lot of creole/french words as it blends into English pretty naturally.

I only saw one tweet with Creole. She mentions The Little Haiti Neighborhood in Miami and what a great party Haiti day was but she sounds like she grew up among the American born.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 12:50:40 PM
If her friends don't speak Creole, why would she tweet in Creole?  It's impossible to look at someone's tweets (in the USA) to determine their first/best language.  I live in a hugely multilingual area and most people tweet in English even if their native language is something else.  That's because, almost everyone knows at least a little English.   

I have to disagree, the whole point of twitter is that it's international, not only do the bilingual people I know tweet their native languages much more frequently, the native English speakers I know are much more likely to try and show off their high school French/Spanish skillz.  Building a huge following (and your ego) is the name of the game.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 12:51:03 PM
After RJ (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2520.0.html) was Raymond McDonald, a T-Mobile representative. He is testifying on how to interpret their records.

I'm thinking they want RJ back after this testimony.

I have been thinking there was more to be asked about the phone calls.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on June 27, 2013, 12:51:11 PM
Why would she look disapprovingly at West when the witness lied?

I think some of the reporters have agendas.

Some of the reporters may feel that way. But I'm someone who thinks all the eye/ear witnesses have been discredited, I've waited a long time to learn about RJ, I wanted to hear all her testimony as well as her contradictions, and I still find West incredibly annoying.

I find the prosecution much more likable, although I still like MOM.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: TalkLeft on June 27, 2013, 12:56:57 PM
Ignatius D. has posted that there were tweets in Creole.

I only saw one out of more than 200. There could have been 2.
She has gone to school here since at least kindergarten. (her 4/2 interview with Bernie.)

Of course her mother speaks English. She had phone conversations with Sybrina, and Rachel put the phone down for a few minutes as her mother continued speaking to Sybrina.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 01:02:05 PM
I only saw one out of more than 200. There could have been 2.
She has gone to school here since at least kindergarten. (her 4/2 interview with Bernie.)

Of course her mother speaks English. She had phone conversations with Sybrina, and Rachel put the phone down for a few minutes as her mother continued speaking to Sybrina.

As I posted here.
http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2506.msg113643.html#msg113643
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: cboldt on June 27, 2013, 01:05:51 PM
I don't recall anyone mentioning this, but she said ABC did a separate interview in which she was taped. Weren't we all under the impression that Matt Gutman taped her at the same time that she was talking on the phone to Crump?

Those aren't mutually exclusive.  There is no dispute that ABC recorded at the same time she was talking with Crump on March 20, and I don't think there is any dispute that she also gave interviews to ABC.  The only "news" is that she was unaware that ABC was present in the room with Crump, Sybrina and Tracy on March 20th, and that she did not consent to having all or any part of her March 20th statement, being given to broadcast media.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on June 27, 2013, 01:13:13 PM
I have to disagree, the whole point of twitter is that it's international, not only do the bilingual people I know tweet their native languages much more frequently, the native English speakers I know are much more likely to try and show off their high school French/Spanish skillz.  Building a huge following (and your ego) is the name of the game.

I think, if RJ had wanted an international following, she wouldn't have been "DD" for so long.  She's using tiwtter to communicate with her friends. 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 04:22:21 PM
More confusion, correlating the relationship between her fixing her hair, and various points in the phone conversations.  I think (but I'm confused right now too) she said she was paying undivided attention at the time the "get off get off" happened.

RJ maintains that although she was doing her hair while talking to him, her attention picked up at the critical moments of the confrontation.

Jeantel said the dividing line was when she called TM again after the connection failed. Right after doing that, she put down the 'iron', and from then on TM had her undivided attention.

I'm not sure exactly what she called the implement, but my recollection is 'hair iron'. I imagine something like, maybe identical to, what I've known to be called a 'curling iron' by the women who use them. (Not to say a man can't use one, but I don't know that I've ever known one who did.)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 04:36:13 PM
Why would she look disapprovingly at West when the witness lied?

Possibly because her recollection was faulty, and she thought West was falsely accusing Jeantel.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: redstripe on June 27, 2013, 04:49:57 PM
Possibly because her recollection was faulty, and she thought West was falsely accusing Jeantel.

Or it could have been what a pro-TM reporter projected onto that juror's look of disapproval, but admittedly West carried on for a little to long and I think some of the jurors probably lost interest, especially when Nelson repeatedly shut down everything he was building toward.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 05:15:52 PM
It just hit me that we didn't see any of Jeantel's video recorded deposition. I thought West implied that would happen today. If it was discussed and ruled inadmissible, I missed that completely.

I'm hoping we see some of it when Jeantel comes back for her encore performance.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 05:19:21 PM
Haitians immigrate to the DR. Her French last name would indicate that her Father is most likely of Haitian descent. Not that its relevant to anything.

But it's interesting. Thanks for this.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 05:20:08 PM
Possibly because her recollection was faulty, and she thought West was falsely accusing Jeantel.

Possibly. The camera was showing the spectators at the time and they were all showing signs of what appeared to be shock, hard to imagine a juror who was taking notes would have a bad memory. If they're as diligent as all the press reports would have us believe.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 05:32:14 PM
Talking heads on WFTV say it's very borderline if someone got to her as her persona is part of her testimony.

They don't know the difference between immunity and SYG.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 05:57:03 PM
They don't know the difference between immunity and SYG.

Bill Sheaffer's been a lawyer longer than you have though.


And today I saw him correct a commenter on immunity and SYG.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 06:03:10 PM
annoyedbeyond
Quote
When you say talking heads, who do you mean? The legal expert, guy with the beard who's name I didn't catch?

Who else would I mean?

I think it's the same two every day, but I've never bothered to learn their names. One says he's a lawyer, and doesn't know the difference between immunity and SYG. I just hope his specialty isn't self-defense in Florida. I think the other is an interviewer/anchor type person.

They double as analysts and reporters, and in the latter capacity they seem to be about as reliable as MSM generally. I don't yet have enough data to say that with confidence.

As I mentioned in another post, they fill in when there is no audio from the courtroom, and don't talk over the proceedings. I agree they can be annoying, and as I've said I think they're worthless as analysts. I often mute them, but when I feel like listening for a while, I sometimes get useful tidbits of hard news.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 06:13:29 PM
hard to imagine a juror who was taking notes would have a bad memory. If they're as diligent as all the press reports would have us believe.

If their memories were perfect they wouldn't need to take notes, would they?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 06:15:56 PM
Bill Sheaffer's been a lawyer longer than you have though.

He might be an excellent lawyer, for those who need a lawyer in whatever his specialty is. That doesn't make him a good source for analysis of this case.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 06:17:29 PM
If their memories were perfect they wouldn't need to take notes, would they?

LOL. You're doing it again, NM.

Sure. But we're talking of someone who heard something half an hour before. Even I can remember something for half an hour.


Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 06:18:50 PM
annoyedbeyond
Who else would I mean?

I think it's the same two every day, but I've never bothered to learn their names. One says he's a lawyer, and doesn't know the difference between immunity and SYG. I just hope his specialty isn't self-defense in Florida. I think the other is an interviewer/anchor type person.

They double as analysts and reporters, and in the latter capacity they seem to be about as reliable as MSM generally. I don't yet have enough data to say that with confidence.

As I mentioned in another post, they fill in when there is no audio from the courtroom, and don't talk over the proceedings. I agree they can be annoying, and as I've said I think they're worthless as analysts. I often mute them, but when I feel like listening for a while, I sometimes get useful tidbits of hard news.

http://www.williamjsheaffer.com/Attorney_Profile.html

And as I said--I saw him correct a commenter on the little auto-comment feed who was carrying on about SYG etc, so if he didn't know the difference it seems he's learned it since you saw him--if it was him you saw.

We could be talking about different people for all we know.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on June 27, 2013, 06:40:20 PM
I'm with NMNM about Schaeffer.  He certainly doesn't have a command of the details of the evidence in the case like you will find on this board.  I find him very unconvincing in his flat out assertion that Zimmerman just must testify in his own behalf.  If that were true, then there would have been no good reason to cancel the immunity hearing where I think custom forces the defendant to testify.  The last thing I remember him saying this afternoon was that Mora was a very strong witness for the prosecution.  That might only be true if one doesn't have a command of the totality of the evidence.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 27, 2013, 07:15:14 PM
I'm with NMNM about Schaeffer.  He certainly doesn't have a command of the details of the evidence in the case like you will find on this board.  I find him very unconvincing in his flat out assertion that Zimmerman just must testify in his own behalf.  If that were true, then there would have been no good reason to cancel the immunity hearing where I think custom forces the defendant to testify.  The last thing I remember him saying this afternoon was that Mora was a very strong witness for the prosecution.  That might only be true if one doesn't have a command of the totality of the evidence.

Don't put words in my mouth, RJ. I never said he was the living authority, I just said he said young ms. RJ's overall comportment was indeed part of her testimony, part of the case, because the jury would be judging her on that as well as what she said.

Then NM said he didn't know the difference between SYG and immunity, and I did see him clarify that for someone today while I was watching the feed, so I know that, whether he didn't know it before or not, he knows it now.

Funny part is, probably your post, my last posts and NM's posts should all get deleted since we apparently aren't supposed to mention things 'experts' say that we find interesting.

And there we are.

Enjoy the rest of your evening.  ;D
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: ding7777 on June 27, 2013, 07:24:06 PM
Could O'mara would ask every witness who was interviewed by FDLE:

Did the interview take place in Sybrina Fulton's living room?
Did Sybrina Fulton sit next to you during the interview?
Did Team Crump drive you to interview?

to emphasize how manufactured RJ's testimony was?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on June 27, 2013, 08:54:54 PM
They don't know the difference between immunity and SYG.

At this point I'm almost ready to give up on that and just hope for people who can tell NEN from 911.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 27, 2013, 11:27:39 PM
It's about 1:25 AM EDT, on 6/28/13. A few minutes ago, I heard on a late version of CNN's Anderson Cooper that the college Jeantel claims to have attended says they have no record of her.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 28, 2013, 10:15:56 AM
It's about 1:25 AM EDT, on 6/28/13. A few minutes ago, I heard on a late version of CNN's Anderson Cooper that the college Jeantel claims to have attended says they have no record of her.

Maybe she enrolled under a false name? Lord knows she's got a bundle of them.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on June 28, 2013, 10:47:13 AM
It's about 1:25 AM EDT, on 6/28/13. A few minutes ago, I heard on a late version of CNN's Anderson Cooper that the college Jeantel claims to have attended says they have no record of her.

AFAIK she only claimed to be attending college on her Twitter feed (or maybe Facebook).  During the trial she said that she would be entering 12th grade in high school this fall.

Also (because I see this come up a lot), she wasn't under oath when she talked to Crump the first time.  She didn't have to be totally truthful.   
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 28, 2013, 11:31:47 AM
Did she say creepy-ass cracker or creepy ass-cracker?

Just wondering, since she suggested TM thought GZ was a rapist and/or pervert, the second makes more sense and hey--nothing racial!

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on June 28, 2013, 01:10:45 PM
Also (because I see this come up a lot), she wasn't under oath when she talked to Crump the first time.  She didn't have to be totally truthful.

She wasn't subject to prosecution for perjury. The statements can be, and were, admitted to impeach her. The jury won't be instructed to disregard them, and how much weight to give them is up to the jury. That the Crump interview was unsworn, may make much difference at this stage.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on June 29, 2013, 09:14:39 PM
Her attorney is Rod Vereen. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/al-sharpton-talks-with-rachel-jeantels-lawyer-condemns-offensive-stereotyping-of-her-in-the-media/ (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/al-sharpton-talks-with-rachel-jeantels-lawyer-condemns-offensive-stereotyping-of-her-in-the-media/)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on June 30, 2013, 01:52:03 AM
RJ disputes West's conjecture that Martin could have been standing still and the wind could have been blowing into the headset.  She's definite that the wind sound in the head set could only have meant that Martin was on the move.

Somebody play the NEN call for her and ask her if Zimmerman is running right after he gets out of the truck.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on June 30, 2013, 02:17:09 AM
...
Of course her mother speaks English. She had phone conversations with Sybrina...

Has it been established that Sybrina only speaks English and knows no Creole or French or Spanish?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on June 30, 2013, 02:22:51 AM
Could O'mara would ask every witness who was interviewed by FDLE:

Did the interview take place in Sybrina Fulton's living room?
Did Sybrina Fulton sit next to you during the interview?
Did Team Crump drive you to interview?

to emphasize how manufactured RJ's testimony was?

Especially if he gets to stand by the cardboard cutout stand-ins for Zimmerman's parents in the front row where they would otherwise be.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on June 30, 2013, 06:12:38 AM
Has it been established that Sybrina only speaks English and knows no Creole or French or Spanish?

Heh.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 01, 2013, 08:44:26 AM
Being reported that the defense will be recalling Ms. Jeantel. Apparently there's something about her buying a gun or trying to get her mother to buy her a gun...
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on July 01, 2013, 09:32:18 AM
It would appear that some of our fellow buffs have come to the conclusion that there are least two Rachel/Dee Dees.  :o google away.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 01, 2013, 09:35:22 AM
It would appear that some of our fellow buffs have come to the conclusion that there are least two Rachel/Dee Dees.  :o google away.

I hate to go down that road but listening to the Crump tape vs what we saw in court I wondered myself.


Until something substantive comes up I'm not touching it though.
 ;)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: TalkLeft on July 01, 2013, 07:39:26 PM
Being reported that the defense will be recalling Ms. Jeantel. Apparently there's something about her buying a gun or trying to get her mother to buy her a gun...

It's in the cellebrite text messages that O'Mara released a few weeks ago. The ones that are marked cell phone report 1, 2. 3 etc.

I can't tell if this is Rachel or not. I thought it might be one of her friends using her phone to text ( she was careful to get out the third party calls and texts but when West asked her how often that happened, I think she said something like 2 or 3 times.)

Why is O'Mara recalling her now instead of waitng for his case? And I thought the judge said no gun evidence unless it's proved to her satisfaction it is relevant.

O'Mara should know from taking her depo if this is her or not.  Unless he didn't have the texts by the second depo.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: jjr495 on July 01, 2013, 07:58:17 PM
The number TM calls at 6:47 while RJ is on the line ,305-770-0893, is the Norland-North Center for the Arts. It is next door to Norland High where RJ is a student. This Center is part of Miami Dade  schools. Could TM have had to call in to a school line during his suspension?

[Edited with permission of commenter.)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 01, 2013, 08:10:33 PM
Quote
Martin and Rachel didn't talk between 5:20 and 6:30pm, when he called her and they talked for around 12.5 minutes, ending around 6:43 pm. The phone likely disconnected since she calls him right back and they talk for 3.5 minutes. (Trayvon arrived at the 7-11 at 6:30 and is seen leaving the area around 6:29.)

At 6:45 he calls Rachel back for 4 minutes 17 seconds which would be 6:50 or so. But at 6:47, he calls a Miami number, 305-770-0893 for 1 minute. Was this a three way call, and if so, who did they talk to?

At 6:50, he calls Rachel for 3.75 minutes
At 6:53, he calls Rachel for 8 seconds (perhaps it went to her voice-mail?) He calls her again at 6:54, but the call lasts only 33 seconds.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/7/1/92244/82226/crimenews/Trayvon-Martin-s-Cell-Phone-Records
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: TalkLeft on July 01, 2013, 08:23:54 PM
thanks for posting the link, I spent hours on those phone records yesterday.
I think it was a three way call. I didn't know whose phone it was .

7 pm on a Sunday night is an odd time to have anyone check in.

Please don't post negative speculation without factual support. Suggesting Rachel was suspended without any facts is a character attack.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: jjr495 on July 01, 2013, 08:49:37 PM
I just deleted the last line, thanks.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: jjr495 on July 01, 2013, 10:50:44 PM
The number TM calls at 6:47 while RJ is on the line ,305-770-0893, is the Norland-North Center for the Arts. It is next door to Norland High where RJ is a student. This Center is part of Miami Dade  schools. Could TM have had to call in to a school line during his suspension?

[Edited with permission of commenter.)
I believe one of the digits was read incorrectly. Changing the digit leads to a number that is likely associated with RJ. I am not sure you want me to post that info here.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Jujube on July 02, 2013, 12:00:58 AM
http://gzdocs.com/documents/opening_graphics/timeline.jpg

MOM's timeline shows a call from RJ to TM lasting from 6:54 to 7:11
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: MJW on July 02, 2013, 01:05:04 AM
I believe one of the digits was read incorrectly. Changing the digit leads to a number that is likely associated with RJ. I am not sure you want me to post that info here.

It's in the court records, so I'll post it. The number is 1-305-770-0890 and it's associated with someone with the last name of "Eugene." I won't post the full name, though it's easily found. I never believed the two DeeDee theory, and I still don't, but I hope (and assume) the defense verified there's no actual Diamond Eugene who's a different person than Rachel Jeantel.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: DiwataMan on July 02, 2013, 01:29:03 AM
It's in the court records, so I'll post it. The number is 1-305-770-0890 and it's associated with someone with the last name of "Eugene." I won't post the full name, though it's easily found. I never believed the two DeeDee theory, and I still don't, but I hope (and assume) the defense verified there's no actual Diamond Eugene who's a different person than Rachel Jeantel.

That's Rachel's house so I think it's pretty good evidence against the 2dd theory considering it's right in the middle of all their calls together. But yes I would like to see a ping log for her number near her house and that should hopefully settle the matter.

5:09-6:30 Outgoing to Rachel
6:30-6:41 Outgoing to Rachel
6:41-6:44 Incoming from Rachel
6:45-6:49 Outgoing to Rachel
6:46-6:48 Outgoing to 305-770-0890
6:49-6:53 Incoming from Rachel
6:53-6:54 Outgoing to Rachel
6:54-6:54 Outgoing to Rachel
6:54-7:11 Incoming from Rachel
7:04 Incoming from Chad
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 12, 2013, 10:43:07 PM
Here's a question I keep forgetting to ask.

Now that we know RJ's social media identity, did anyone guess it correctly?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: TalkLeft on July 13, 2013, 12:19:04 AM
Before she was disclosed? No, I don't think anyone did.  I think by the end most people trying to figure it out realized it was going to be someone whose name had not come up in any of the searches. Which makes sense, because O'Mara says they only started communicating a few weeks before he died. Nor is she friends on social media with his other friends, or (with one or two exceptions) kids at Krop or Carol or Miramar (she goes to Norwood I think.)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 13, 2013, 04:07:43 PM
I think by the end most people trying to figure it out realized it was going to be someone whose name had not come up in any of the searches. Which makes sense, because O'Mara says they only started communicating a few weeks before he died.

That does make sense. Thank you.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on July 15, 2013, 12:53:56 PM
One important thing I don't understand from her testimony:  Did she claim she was wearing a bluetooth headset, while doing her hair in the bathroom, which enabled her to hear what TM was saying and doing at the point he and Zimmerman met up?  I hope somebody who has such a device can clue me in as to whether there is anything suspicious about her statement.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Lousy1 on July 15, 2013, 03:47:23 PM
RJ is visiting Piers Morgan tonight at 9:00.

I suspect her lawyer will be there also. I would like to know who owned her cell phone before her.


http://www (http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2013/07/15/piers-morgan-lands-rachel-jeantel-interview/).theblaze.com/blog/2013/07/15/piers-morgan-lands-rachel-jeantel-interview/ (http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2013/07/15/piers-morgan-lands-rachel-jeantel-interview/)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 15, 2013, 05:26:41 PM
I would like to know who owned her cell phone before her.

Why?

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Lousy1 on July 15, 2013, 05:59:06 PM
I am don't believe a 17 yo. man , who ( at least by his cousins Testimony) had multiple girl friends , would talk several hours with a lady of RJ's charisma. She implied that she didn't own the phone at the time to BDLR  I would like to know who did and a little bit about who had access to that phone.
.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 15, 2013, 06:16:09 PM
She implied that she didn't own the phone at the time to BDLR.

Isn't that the phone that records showed was pre-paid and anonymous? When she implied that it wasn't always in her name, wouldn't that just mean that it was in no one's name at one time?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Lousy1 on July 15, 2013, 06:26:19 PM
The exact quote was more like:

BDLR- is this phone in your name?

DeeDee- It is now I think.

So who did it belong to before , who payed for it to be put under her name and who had access to the phone


Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Lousy1 on July 15, 2013, 07:08:30 PM
Never mind  -let her speak. She says nothing.

As the interview  go on I am surprised at how personal she is when she is lobbed softballs


Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Redbrow on July 15, 2013, 07:24:06 PM
She now claims "cracka" means security guard or cop to her and Trayvon. So Trayvon knew the stranger  was  security of some sort and that is why he stalked, confronted and attacked ZIMMERMAN?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Lousy1 on July 15, 2013, 07:38:08 PM
Yes even though her LAwyer prepped her well she does not come off as particularly bright oe honest. I hope she gets a taste for money

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: MJW on July 15, 2013, 10:23:28 PM
She now claims "cracka" means security guard or cop to her and Trayvon. So Trayvon knew the stranger  was  security of some sort and that is why he stalked, confronted and attacked ZIMMERMAN?

That's very interesting. I wonder if she considered the implications.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on July 15, 2013, 11:03:34 PM
Perhaps ironically, this new definition of cracka harks back to the supposed origin of cracker, i.e., the guy with the whip who keeps people in line.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: MJW on July 15, 2013, 11:38:24 PM
Perhaps ironically, this new definition of cracka harks back to the supposed origin of cracker, i.e., the guy with the whip who keeps people in line.

Well, at least if you believe that old story, which sounds a lot like something someone concocted that an actual etymology. According to a fairly thorough article (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/489687), the origin isn't certain, but it probably derives from a very old term for a braggart.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: MJW on July 15, 2013, 11:57:10 PM
Well, at least if you believe that old story, which sounds a lot more like something someone concocted than an actual etymology.

I can't believe how I can read something several times, and still overlook obvious errors.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on July 16, 2013, 12:16:01 AM
Well, at least if you believe that old story, which sounds a lot like something someone concocted that an actual etymology. According to a fairly thorough article (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/489687), the origin isn't certain, but it probably derives from a very old term for a braggart.

I was of the opinion that the term "supposed origin" indicated my awareness that it is not universally accepted as the one and only source of the word.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: MJW on July 16, 2013, 02:39:37 AM
I was of the opinion that the term "supposed origin" indicated my awareness that it is not universally accepted as the one and only source of the word.

Sorry if it seemed like I was criticizing you; I didn't intend it that way. I realize you weren't stating it as a fact, but I've heard it stated as a fact on TV several times in the last few days, and took the opportunity to  put in my two cents. I've got to admit, phony etymologies like that are kind of a pet peeve of mine.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: ding7777 on July 16, 2013, 04:35:30 AM
She now claims "cracka" means security guard or cop to her and Trayvon. So Trayvon knew the stranger  was  security of some sort and that is why he stalked, confronted and attacked ZIMMERMAN?

How did she get from her revised meaning of "cracka" to rapist? 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 16, 2013, 04:39:25 AM
According to a fairly thorough article (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/489687), the origin isn't certain, but it probably derives from a very old term for a braggart.

An interesting feature of that theory, is that in colonial America it was a derogatory term used by other whites for a low-status sub-group, the Scots-Irish frontier settlers (possibly my ancestors, btw). If so it may reflect an ancient cultural difference. Bragging on oneself was customary among Celtic peoples, but felt as offensive by the English.

But the true origin may have been forgotten by the 1760's, and 'braggart' just the earliest attested folk etymology.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 16, 2013, 04:58:46 AM
According to a fairly thorough article (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/489687),

The funniest theory, is that it means a white man who supplies a certain illegal substance to black customers.

I think the person who suggested that was kidding.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 16, 2013, 05:02:39 AM
I can't believe how I can read something several times, and still overlook obvious errors.

I think it's a carryover from how our brains process spoken language, filtering out errors to get at a speaker's intended meaning. Effective proofreading requires a conscious effort to overcome that. (Not that I can claim to be a source of wisdom on the subject of proofreading.)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 16, 2013, 05:03:52 AM
How did she get from her revised meaning of "cracka" to rapist?

That's the creepy-a* part.

I think RJ clarified that in her trial testimony.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: ding7777 on July 16, 2013, 08:13:00 AM
BLDR asked RJ if cracker/cracka meant a white person.  RJ said yes.

 Just my opinion but a possible reason to revise the meaning  could be someone is worried GZ  may sue TM's estate or request DOJ to open a hate crime investigation.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 16, 2013, 08:24:35 AM
BLDR asked RJ if cracker/cracka meant a white person.  RJ said yes.

As I watched the interview with Piers Morgan, I thought maybe three or four times that RJ was contradicting her trial testimony.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: AghastInFL on July 16, 2013, 12:11:50 PM
As I watched the interview with Piers Morgan, I thought maybe three or four times that RJ was contradicting her trial testimony.

any details to add in that regard?
I tend to believe RJ's version of truth is constrained primarily by the current topic or audience, in equal parts.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Evil Chinchilla on July 16, 2013, 01:13:14 PM
Is there a full transcript of her interview somewhere?

I've only been able to find a transcrpt of a later appearance Piers Morgan did on some other CNN show where they replayed snips. It had a transcript of the "security guard" part, but not the part where she talks about the "rapist" part.

I watched it on YouTube (via Mediaite), but the end of part 2 seemed to cut off, and I'm not sure if that was all there was.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that she's now saying that "creepy *ss cracka" doesn't mean "creepy white guy". It means "creepy gay security guard". (Given her definitions, "creepy white guy" would actually be "creepy *ss ni99*" or "creepy *ss white ni99*", I guess.)

When she says that TM reacted to her goading that GZ was "a rapist" the way "any boy or man who was not that way"* would, it sounds like she's setting up the classic "homosexual panic" defense to explain why TM decided to give GZ some "whup azz".

And since that defense is what led to the federal "hate crimes" statutes-- signed by Obama, yet-- when Matthew Shepard's killers tried to use it-- well...

She's just the gift that keeps on giving.



------
*(going on memory here, not necessarily exact words, which is why I want the transcript)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: IgnatiusJDonnelly on July 16, 2013, 01:41:26 PM
Phineas J Chinchilla, you're a genius!
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Evil Chinchilla on July 16, 2013, 02:34:35 PM
Thanks for the compliment, but my partner here just trumped me.

He just said "The problem with Team Crump's legal strategy is that they keep trying to use bear traps as snowshoes."
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: txantimedia on July 17, 2013, 10:20:09 AM
Here's probably more than you ever wanted to know about the etymology of the word cracker or cracka.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_%28pejorative%29
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 17, 2013, 10:28:32 AM
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/07/16/rachel-jeantel-on-trayvon-martin-friendship-he-never-judged-me/

Quote
What’s next for Rachel Jeantel?

“My education is first. I am educated. Trust me, I have a 3.0 I’m good. I need to get my life straight because this situation got a whole lot of things in my mind so I want to clear it up.”

Jeantel has been offered multiple scholarship opportunities, including one from morning radio talk show host Tom Joyner, who has offered her a tutor to help her graduate and to prep for the SAT and four years of tuition to any Historically Black College or University.


Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 17, 2013, 10:37:05 AM
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/07/16/rachel-jeantel-on-trayvon-martin-friendship-he-never-judged-me/
Quote
morning radio talk show host Tom Joyner, who has offered her a tutor to help her graduate and to prep for the SAT and four years of tuition to any Historically Black College or University.

Joyner wants her to go to an 'historically black' school? What happened to the ideal of desegregated education?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Lousy1 on July 17, 2013, 10:44:49 AM
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/07/16/rachel-jeantel-on-trayvon-martin-friendship-he-never-judged-me/


Perhaps the 3.0 is on a scale of 1-100. Does a perspective 21 year old valedictorian need to be able to spell 'valedictorian'  - or perhaps 'cracker'?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 17, 2013, 10:46:17 AM


Joyner wants her to go to an 'historically black' school? What happened to the ideal of desegregated education?

When I was in college the college (because of size and location) was very white. College decided to try and recruit more black students. Succeeded.
First thing the new black students did was form a Black Students United club and demand separate housing (like a frat or sorority).
So much for diversity.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 17, 2013, 10:47:24 AM

Perpaps the 3.0 is on a scale of 1-100. Does a perspective 21 year old valedictorian need to be able to spell 'valedictorian'  - or perhaps 'cracker'?

I don't guess Jeralyn will appreciate what I was about to say next, so I suppose I'll just drop it.

But really...a 3.0?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Redbrow on July 17, 2013, 11:42:30 AM
I don't guess Jeralyn will appreciate what I was about to say next, so I suppose I'll just drop it.

But really...a 3.0?
I have seen many commenters in the media chastising the juror for stating RJ is uneducated, some claiming it is proof of racial bias.

BDLR is the one who stated she was uneducated and unsophisticated during the trial. Didn't these knee-jerk idiots even bother watching the trial? The juror was only going by the prosecution's characterization, as they should.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 17, 2013, 12:17:16 PM
The juror was only going by the prosecution's characterization, as they should.

I don't think so. The lawyers' statements aren't testimony, much less gospel.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on July 17, 2013, 12:29:33 PM
Here is a 22 minute Rachel (http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/rachel-jeantel-trayvon-martin/51e5784b2b8c2a08d90000f5) interview which shows her funny, charming and mostly intelligible.  I still would like a competent investigator to interview her to find out exactly what she heard that night.  She now says Trayvon swung first.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 17, 2013, 01:22:13 PM
I don't think so. The lawyers' statements aren't testimony, much less gospel.

When the prosecution characterizes one of their witnesses in any sort of way, I'm fairly sure that's going to have an impression. No one said anything about it being absolute. Slow the OCD roll.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 17, 2013, 03:23:26 PM
Here is a 22 minute Rachel (http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/rachel-jeantel-trayvon-martin/51e5784b2b8c2a08d90000f5) interview which shows her funny, charming and mostly intelligible.

I thought she was at her least articulate. Some time after the 13 minute mark, I gave up in exhaustion from the effort of extracting meaning from the words she was saying. Did she say anything of interest after that?

At the beginning she said she expected the media attention because she 'had been watching last year', contradicting her testimony that she doesn't watch news (0:20).

Quote
She now says Trayvon swung first.

That's not how I would describe what RJ said.

RJ speculated that GZ might have started the physical struggle by trying to grab TM, after which TM might have swung a punch (10:06-11:27).
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Lousy1 on July 17, 2013, 04:31:04 PM
I thought she was at her least articulate. Some time after the 13 minute mark, I gave up in exhaustion from the effort of extracting meaning from the words she was saying. Did she say anything of interest after that?

At the beginning she said she expected the media attention because she 'had been watching last year', contradicting her testimony that she doesn't watch news (0:20).




I agree I think she started out with confidence then realized that despite her coaching , that her answers were not being accepted as gospel.

JMO

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on July 17, 2013, 04:53:26 PM
The transcript of Jeantel's conversation with Piers Morgan is here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/15/pmt.01.html (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/15/pmt.01.html)

Morgan said, "Nobody knew him better than you." That seems unlikely. I know his relatives have been interviewed, but I haven't seen any other friends interviewed.

"MORGAN: What the defense again tried to paint a picture of is somebody who -- because of the drug use, that would make him more violent." That was never said in the trial, of course. Do y'all know if MOM or West ever said the marijuana would make him more violent?

She also said that what she wrote on social media was just bragging, but it wasn't true. I'm guessing this refers to drugs and alcohol.

She said she had an underbite so severe that she had to have surgery and she still needs another surgery. She said that causes her speech problems. I think that could cause her to talk softly, perhaps out of embarrassment.  But that doesn't explain other problems in communication.

It was awkward when Morgan asked her to spell "cracker," and then jumped in when she hesitated. I'm not saying she doesn't know how to spell, but it certainly seemed like Morgan wasn't taking any chances.

In response to GZ's statement that TM was walking slowly, looking around, she explained that he was "lazy." OK, sorry, I know you can read this for yourselves, but I can't stop myself. In regard to GZ following TM ...

MORGAN: And he was freaked out by it?

JEANTEL: Yes. Definitely after I say may be a rapist, for every boy, for every man, every -- who's not that kind of way, seeing a grown man following them, would they be creep out?

She also said, "And people need to understand, he didn't want that creepy ass cracker going to his father or girlfriend's house to go get -- mind you, his little brother was there. You know -- now, mind you, I told you -- I told Trayvon it might have been a rapist." 

I know this tracks what others have said, but I think this is the first time that she has suggested this. I wonder if she means that he decided not to go home, or that he somehow wanted to stop GZ from getting to his home.

Personally, I didn't think West was ever rude to her. But Morgan suggested West was very aggressive, and Jeantel said, "He got to get that check. It's all about that check." It drives me nuts when so-called journalists don't correct misinformation by saying, for example, West hasn't been paid.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: jjr495 on July 17, 2013, 05:20:26 PM
At the beginning she said she expected the media attention because she 'had been watching last year', contradicting her testimony that she doesn't watch news (0:20).
RJ speculated that GZ might have started the physical struggle by trying to grab TM, after which TM might have swung a punch (10:06-11:27).
Her story changes every time she is interviewed. Now we learn that GZ didn't push TM, and TM probably threw the first punch. And she has been watching the media since last year.  I originally thought MOM was correct that she was primarily just an embarrassed and reluctant witness who was coached into saying certain things, but I now think Jeralyn had her personality correctly pegged from the beginning. She is 19 and doesn't view herself as an adult. Thus, she feels she has no responsibility for any of her words or actions. I guess her world will implode in a few months when she turns 20.
It is interesting that many think she has been charming and engaging in her post-verdict interviews. I thought more highly of her when she was on the witness stand.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Cylinder on July 17, 2013, 05:27:27 PM
Jeantel: I think Trayvon threw the first punch (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/07/17/rachel_jeantel_travyon_hit_first.html)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: jjr495 on July 17, 2013, 06:02:25 PM
Jeantel: I think Trayvon threw the first punch (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/07/17/rachel_jeantel_travyon_hit_first.html)
Before she heard a push, then grass, then "get off, get off". Now it's a grab by GZ then a punch by TM. Unbelievable.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on July 17, 2013, 06:21:45 PM
JEANTEL: Yes. Who's acting like a policeman and then he keeps telling me that the man still watch him. So if it was a security guard or a policeman, they would come up to Trayvon and say, do you have -- do you need -- do you have a problem, do you need help? You know, like normal people.

MORGAN: And if George Zimmerman had done that, if he'd introduced himself as a neighborhood watch patrolman, even though he was off duty, if he'd done that, what would Trayvon have said to him, do you think?

JEANTEL: No, I'm just trying to get home. I'm waiting for the rain to slow down so I can go catch the game, the all-star game.

Doesn't this contradict her earlier statement that TM asked what GZ's problem was and GZ responded by asking what TM was doing around there?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: ding7777 on July 17, 2013, 08:24:10 PM

 "And people need to understand, he didn't want that creepy ass cracker going to his father or girlfriend's house to go get -- mind you, his little brother was there. You know -- now, mind you, I told you -- I told Trayvon it might have been a rapist." 


And TM did not bother to call Chad to say lock the doors and call 911 NOW, There's a creep azz cracker rapist on the loose. 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on July 17, 2013, 09:12:24 PM
Rachel and Sharpton. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BXqYA70anew)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 18, 2013, 06:28:24 AM
The transcript of Jeantel's conversation with Piers Morgan is here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/15/pmt.01.html (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/15/pmt.01.html)

Quote
Do y'all know if MOM or West ever said the marijuana would make him more violent?

My recollection is that the defense said they had studies to show that MJ sometimes made people violent. IOW, I think their argument was 'could', not 'would'. But we can hardly expect such fine distinctions on cable news.

They also suggested impaired judgment. But ultimately they decided not to put anything about MJ before the jury.

Quote
She also said, "And people need to understand, he didn't want that creepy ass cracker going to his father or girlfriend's house to go get -- mind you, his little brother was there. You know -- now, mind you, I told you -- I told Trayvon it might have been a rapist." 

I know this tracks what others have said, but I think this is the first time that she has suggested this.

I'm sure it's the first time for RJ to suggest this.

This explanation for TM not going home has been on the internet for ages. I don't recall anyone involved in the case suggesting it, until John Guy went there in his closing rebuttal argument (live-blog 1 (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2604.msg116605.html#msg116605), 2 (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2604.msg116609.html#msg116609)). That's the last word that the state gets because they have the burden. The other side doesn't get to answer, so it's a good time for the dumbest arguments.

Neither Guy nor RJ claimed that TM said that. RJ saved the speculation for a soft-ball interview after her testimony, where she wouldn't be asked if TM told her that, or if she ever asked him why he didn't go home.

It's inconsistent with RJ's trial testimony, in which she said that she thought TM was at his house and his father would come out to help him (live-blog, (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2506.msg113465.html#msg113465) including the next post).
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 18, 2013, 09:28:38 AM
As I watched the interview with Piers Morgan, I thought maybe three or four times that RJ was contradicting her trial testimony.

any details to add in that regard?

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bywThAx1IWY)

Transcript (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/15/pmt.01.html)

8:41
Quote
RJ: And then, I'm finding out, two days later, he dead. And then I have to be, by a friend telling me, 'Oh, do you know, he died at seven seventeen.' And I had to look at my phone. My phone say seven sixteen.

My recollection is that RJ contradicted herself about this in her trial testimony. When she was explaining why she didn't go to the wake, she would say she felt guilty because of being the last person to talk to TM (live-blog). (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2506.msg113327.html#msg113327) When she was explaining why she didn't come forward sooner, she said she didn't know she was the last person to talk to TM. That was the point she was making when she mentioned the TV show 'The First Forty Eight'. (http://www.aetv.com/the-first-48/) (Live-blog, (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2506.msg113360.html#msg113360) including next post.)

I would like to know who told RJ that TM 'died' at 7:17. TM's death certificate said 7:30, the time he was pronounced (133/184 (http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf)).

Quote
Approximate TOD: 1930

Singleton's timeline had 7:17:20 for the gunshot (39-40/184). That's a bit off the currently accepted time of 7:16:56, but either rounds to 7:17.

From the police reports, it seems that Serino had the Singleton timeline in time for his 2/28, 10:30 AM meeting with Tracy (40/184). But was this information widely disseminated that very day?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Evil Chinchilla on July 18, 2013, 11:08:03 AM
JEANTEL: Yes. Who's acting like a policeman and then he keeps telling me that the man still watch him. So if it was a security guard or a policeman, they would come up to Trayvon and say, do you have -- do you need -- do you have a problem, do you need help? You know, like normal people.

MORGAN: And if George Zimmerman had done that, if he'd introduced himself as a neighborhood watch patrolman, even though he was off duty, if he'd done that, what would Trayvon have said to him, do you think?

JEANTEL: No, I'm just trying to get home. I'm waiting for the rain to slow down so I can go catch the game, the all-star game.

Doesn't this contradict her earlier statement that TM asked what GZ's problem was and GZ responded by asking what TM was doing around there?

Absolutely. But it fits with what numerous TM supporters and the prosecution have said-- "If only George had identified himself as NW, none of this would've happened"-- and she seems all too willing to rewrite history to fit whatever plays best.

And saying on CNN that TM pegged GZ as some sort of security guard-- in a gated community with "Neighborhood Watch" signs posted-- raises another issue.

There's a FL statute specifically protecting NW:
Quote
843.20 Harassment of participant of neighborhood crime watch program prohibited; penalty; definitions.—
(1) It shall be a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, for any person to willfully harass, threaten, or intimidate an identifiable member of a neighborhood crime watch program while such member is engaged in, or traveling to or from, an organized neighborhood crime watch program activity or a member who is participating in an ongoing criminal investigation, as designated by a law enforcement officer.
(2) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress in that person and serves no legitimate purpose.
(b) “Organized neighborhood crime watch program activity” means any prearranged event, meeting, or other scheduled activity, or neighborhood patrol, conducted by or at the direction of a neighborhood crime watch program or the program’s authorized designee.
History.—s. 2, ch. 2004-18.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/843.20

---

And thanks for the link to the CNN transcript, SuzieTampa.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 19, 2013, 05:54:44 PM
I thought some of RJ's answers to Piers Morgan were exquisitely revealing.

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekJbUyn0X8o#t=15m44s)

Transcript (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/15/pmt.01.html)

15:44
Quote
PM: Did he ever show any interest in burglaring houses, or -

RJ: What he want to burglary for? He supposed to have left that night, that day anyway. So, why he wanna burglary for? He don't even live there, he don't know nobody there. He only know his brother, or his stepbrother, and his father, and his father's girlfriend.

I wouldn't call that responsive to the question.

17:17
Quote
RJ: I had a feeling it was gonna be a not guilty, so.

PM: Because of the make-up of the jury? Do you think it was just wrong, that you had no black people on the jury at all?

RJ: Not that. They don't understand, they understand - oh, he was just bash, or he was killed. When somebody bash somebody, like blood people, trust me, the area I live, that's not bashing. That's just called whoop ass. You just got your ass whooped. That's what it is.

I take it that the 'area' RJ shared with TM features regular, casual violence.

23:18
Quote
PM: What, what is your view of George Zimmerman?

RJ: Weak. Scary. Hiding. From him, his father.

PM: Why do you say that?

RJ: If you were a real man, you would of stand on that stage, and tell what happened.

I take it that RJ equates masculinity with recklessness.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: ding7777 on July 20, 2013, 05:36:48 AM

RJ: If you were a real man, you would of stand on that stage, and tell what happened.

Maybe if GZ had Francine (?)  write a letter (in cursive) it would have satisfied her.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on July 20, 2013, 01:48:11 PM
Does anyone remember if W8/DeeDee/Rachel/whoever ever used the construction "so and so 'came and' did such and such" at any time after the 3/19/12 interview with Crump?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 20, 2013, 02:26:22 PM
Does anyone remember if W8/DeeDee/Rachel/whoever ever used the construction "so and so 'came and' did such and such" at any time after the 3/19/12 interview with Crump?

She used it a few times in the de la Rionda interview (4/2/12), I think usually in present tense, if that matters.

I've just discovered that my link to that interview no longer works. I did a quick browse of YouTube without finding a replacement.

According to my notes, there is an example after about 9:20.

Quote
He say he not gonna run, because, I could've known he not gonna run, because he out of breath. And then, he come and say the guy getting close to him.
 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: SuzieTampa on July 20, 2013, 08:16:17 PM
    More interesting points: When PM asked her would she lie, she said why would she lie? She's not getting paid.
    Now, however, she is getting material goods. She is getting to travel, stay in nice hotels, etc.
    She acknowledged that she sometimes lies, but PM said: But not in a serious trial? And she said no. So, does that mean she would have no problem lying to him and others, just as she did with TM's parents and Ben Crump? 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: leftwig on July 22, 2013, 12:43:05 PM
Has anyone asked RJ about her relationship with TM in any detail.  Piers called them best friends.  Crump said they were dating, RJ initially said we were getting there, then they were just friends that started texting/calling on 2/1/12.  TM's mom said she started hearing her name sometime around Christmas as if maybe they were dating.  I would like someone to ask RJ how much they saw and talked to each other face to face and in what setting. 

I can't say I know RJ or TM, but I don't see them having any sort of relationship.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Redbrow on July 22, 2013, 12:58:05 PM
Has anyone asked RJ about her relationship with TM in any detail.  Piers called them best friends.  Crump said they were dating, RJ initially said we were getting there, then they were just friends that started texting/calling on 2/1/12.  TM's mom said she started hearing her name sometime around Christmas as if maybe they were dating.  I would like someone to ask RJ how much they saw and talked to each other face to face and in what setting. 

I can't say I know RJ or TM, but I don't see them having any sort of relationship.

In her interview with huffpo she and the host coyly try to make it seems like romance was involved.

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/rachel-jeantel-trayvon-martin/51e5784b2b8c2a08d90000f5
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Redbrow on July 22, 2013, 01:11:12 PM
@12:40 just after she admits Trayvon threw the first punch to "whoop ass" on George.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Lousy1 on July 22, 2013, 02:41:31 PM
@12:40 just after she admits Trayvon threw the first punch to "whoop ass" on George.

<And thats why I love him>

Probably not Tristan and Isolde
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 22, 2013, 02:45:30 PM
I think RJ's most complete description of her relationship with TM was on West's cross (video, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdzrBw-x8Xc#t=00h31m35s) 31:35-34:06).

They met when both were in 2d grade, contradicting her 4/2 statement to Bernie, which implied that at least one of them was in kindergarten.

They lost contact completely 'when we got to high school'.

On 2/1/12, which was RJ's birthday, they met again because TM was visiting some of his friends who lived in RJ's neighborhood. 

33:07-22
Quote
West: So you would then talk with him on the phone quite a bit, and text with him, beginning about February first?
RJ: Yes.
West: But you weren't, in any way, his girlfriend?
RJ: No.
West: And you hadn't ever actually gone on a date?
RJ: No.

West then asked if she and TM had met in person two or three times in February, suggesting to me that RJ said that in her deposition. RJ indicated that they met far more frequently than that, without specifying how many times. West moved on without asking for more details. He didn't ask about the circumstances of any of the meetings.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 22, 2013, 02:50:37 PM
I think RJ's most complete description of her relationship with TM was on West's cross (video, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdzrBw-x8Xc#t=00h31m35s) 31:35-34:06).

They met when both were in 2d grade, contradicting her 4/2 statement to Bernie, which implied that at least one of them was in kindergarten.


They lost contact completely 'when we got to high school'.

On 2/1/12, which was RJ's birthday, they met again because TM was visiting some of his friends who lived in RJ's neighborhood. 

33:07-22
West then asked if she and TM had met in person two or three times in February, suggesting to me that RJ said that in her deposition. RJ indicated that they met far more frequently than that, without specifying how many times. West moved on without asking for more details. He didn't ask about the circumstances of any of the meetings.

Wouldn't the difference in ages account for that? She's a year or so older, right?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Lousy1 on July 22, 2013, 02:54:55 PM
If TM just turned 17 and she is almost 20 2nd Grade/ Kindergarten makes more sense. Does RJ provide cigars for younger friends?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 22, 2013, 03:03:47 PM
If TM just turned 17 and she is almost 20

RJ was 18 on 2/1/12. TM was 17 on 2/5/12.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Lousy1 on July 22, 2013, 03:05:55 PM
RJ was 18 on 2/1/12. TM was 17 on 2/5/12.

Thanks
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 22, 2013, 03:13:05 PM
In her interview with huffpo she and the host coyly try to make it seems like romance was involved.

My takeaway from that, was that if TM was RJ's boyfriend, she wouldn't want to admit it in public.

But I guess the idea of them having some kind of hush-hush, Romeo and Juliet romance was something the host thought would appeal to his audience.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 23, 2013, 03:43:51 PM
Wouldn't the difference in ages account for that? She's a year or so older, right?

RJ is in HS at 19, so she probably repeated a grade. If it was the 1st or 2d, RJ and TM could have been in 2d grade at the same time.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on July 25, 2013, 08:15:27 AM
Rachel's lawyer argues with Steve Maltzberg (http://www.newsmax.com/cmspages/newsmax/handlers/liveshow.ashx?operation=ShowPastVideo&embedCode=93cjFmZDpRzsIAhrPQPNQnAXa2MC9j5b#ooid=93cjFmZDpRzsIAhrPQPNQnAXa2MC9j5b).
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: TalkLeft on July 25, 2013, 06:26:39 PM
that was interesting to watch. Rachel's lawyer admits she gets her words wrong sometimes.

And now we know unnamed persons were prepping her for her for her court appearance with respect to her clothing and what would happen, and were so concerned she didn't understand what court was about, they called in Vereen at the last minute. He said those people were not the state's attorney's office.

The end discussion about Rush was pretty irrelevant in my view to anything, but up until that, he does reveal some things.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: ding7777 on July 26, 2013, 12:50:10 AM
Rachel and Sharpton. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BXqYA70anew)

IMO, RJ spoke more clearly with Sharpton.  Maybe she is getting more comfortable being interviewed or she is less defensive with a black interviewer.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Redbrow on July 26, 2013, 02:22:27 AM
that was interesting to watch. Rachel's lawyer admits she gets her words wrong sometimes.

And now we know unnamed persons were prepping her for her for her court appearance with respect to her clothing and what would happen, and were so concerned she didn't understand what court was about, they called in Vereen at the last minute. He said those people were not the state's attorney's office.

The end discussion about Rush was pretty irrelevant in my view to anything, but up until that, he does reveal some things.

Maybe not from the SA office but obviously working closely with them, otherwise how did they come into contact with her? Her identity was a closely guarded secret even though she was not even a minor.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 26, 2013, 06:41:38 PM
Maybe not from the SA office but obviously working closely with them, otherwise how did they come into contact with her?

She or her mother may have sought them out. It's not like she was a prisoner. But I think it's more likely that Team Crump made the connection.

When George Zimmerman was charged, special prosecutor Angela Corey said that 'Mr. Crump and Mr. Parks' had 'stayed in touch daily with us' (video, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r-idmJTK3I#t=05m19s) 5:19). 

Vereen said the people prepping RJ 'work for a church' (video, (http://www.newsmax.com/cmspages/newsmax/handlers/liveshow.ashx?operation=ShowPastVideo&embedCode=93cjFmZDpRzsIAhrPQPNQnAXa2MC9j5b#ooid=93cjFmZDpRzsIAhrPQPNQnAXa2MC9j5b) 1:34).
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: jeanmarc8 on July 27, 2013, 11:29:33 AM
IANAL

The comments by W8/RJ’s lawyer are interesting, though he works hard to avoid being tied down to specifics. I have wondered why a “pro bono” lawyer/spokesman did not appear early in this case to represent W8/RJ. The face recognition on television alone should have been worth something to an aspiring lawyer in the greater Miami market.

I see it as a major systemic failure in this case that the testimony of W8/RJ was not locked down before the Affidavit of Probably Cause was signed.  The snippets by Mr. Crump and BDLR did not come close to being adequate in my opinion.  Such testimony would have a required a prolonged interview, most likely on video, to fully document her recollections. That would include a minute by minute discussion based on the cell phone records, as well as a lot of background information.  As it was, her recollections would likely become more uncertain and intermingled in the time between the events and the court time.

Probably even more concerning is that prosecution made that choice early on, so they likely appreciated the weakness of her testimony, to the point of hiding her name and background even to the defense. Then the case dragged on for 16 months.   At the trial, the critical witness who “connected the dots” was evidently found not credible by the jury.

Justice long deferred may be justice denied, but GZ and his family paid a heavy price for someone who was found not guilty of anything by a jury of his peers.  The potential for tyranny from an abusive judicial system was quite apparent, as Mr. O’Mara opined.

Again, IANAL.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on July 27, 2013, 02:11:26 PM
One thing not cleared up in the trial was the early saga of Martin's cellphone.  In the past, we heard a series of confusing statements as to why the last person on the phone with Martin, Rachel Jeantel, was not contacted by the police right away.  First we heard that the police couldn't find a proper charger for the phone.  Then Tracy Martin wouldn't supply a password unless he spoke first with his lawyer.  I think both have denied this.  Why the police couldn't see the phone records before Tracy Martin did is another mystery.  The last juicy tidbit about the phone was in a hearing, out of the jury's earshot, on July 9.  Richard Connor testified that there were mysterious (recoverable) deletions made of text messages on the phone and he hinted that, from their nature. the deletions might not have been done by Trayvon Martin, but when it was in police custody.  If Zimmerman brings a malicious prosecution suit, I assume we will finally learn the much more of the story.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 27, 2013, 02:58:33 PM
Why the police couldn't see the phone records before Tracy Martin did is another mystery.

How is it mysterious that Tracy was able to access an account that belonged to him?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on July 27, 2013, 04:31:35 PM
I don't think I understand your question, NMNM.  The question is why the police didn't access Martin's phone records ASAP, not why Tracy could access them.  I don't even know if they checked Zimmerman's to see if there was anything there that would contradict his story.  I think Serino was wondering early on what information could be gleaned from TM's phone because he told that story about Martin videotaping everything to Zimmerman.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on July 27, 2013, 04:41:18 PM
How is it mysterious that Tracy was able to access an account that belonged to him?

Supposedly it was only after the bill showed up in the mail with the calls listed that Tracy had any info, but didn't Connor say the phone was actually on Sybrina's account, and not Tracy's?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 27, 2013, 04:58:47 PM
Supposedly it was only after the bill showed up in the mail with the calls listed that Tracy had any info

Crump presser, 3/20/12 (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/20/cnr.03.html)
Quote
Mr. Martin, on Sunday evening, was working with his cell phone account, trying to figure out Trayvon's password.

Quote
but didn't Connor say the phone was actually on Sybrina's account, and not Tracy's?

First I've heard this, but since you mention it, I think it would be odd for Trayvon's phone to be on Tracy's account. Sybrina could have given Tracy access.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 27, 2013, 05:05:35 PM
The question is why the police didn't access Martin's phone records ASAP

I don't know that they didn't.

For me, the unanswered questions are when did the SPD ask for a court order, and why wasn't the order granted sooner.

Quote
not why Tracy could access them.

It was you who brought up Tracy.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 27, 2013, 05:26:36 PM
Supposedly it was only after the bill showed up in the mail with the calls listed that Tracy had any info, but didn't Connor say the phone was actually on Sybrina's account, and not Tracy's?

Yes, that's what he said. I thought he misspoke, actually, but no one corrected him so maybe not.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: MJW on July 27, 2013, 06:38:28 PM
Then Tracy Martin wouldn't supply a password unless he spoke first with his lawyer.  I think both have denied this.

Is "both" the police and Tracy, or is "both" Crump and Tracy? Either way, the police report says Tracy wouldn't give them the password, so unless there's strong evidence that wasn't true, I'll continue to believe it. Despite what you say, I don't think there's any real mystery why the police couldn't access TM's phone: it was locked with a pattern lock. If there's any mystery at all, it is, as nomatter_nevermind mentions, why they didn't subpoena the phone records earlier. Perhaps one reason is the police knew they would get more information from the the phone than from the phone records, and underestimated the difficulty and time it would take to get it.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 27, 2013, 06:54:16 PM
Perhaps one reason is the police knew they would get more information from the the phone than from the phone records, and underestimated the difficulty and time it would take to get it.

I think the phone records would have included the information needed to access the phone. According to the police report, T-Mobile advised that they needed the phone number and the account pin number (17/184 (http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf)).

ETA: It was the pin number that SPD requested from Tracy Martin.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: MJW on July 27, 2013, 07:10:58 PM
I think the phone records would have included the information needed to access the phone. According to the police report, T-Mobile advised that they needed the phone number and the account pin number (17/184 (http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf)).

ETA: It was the pin number that SPD requested from Tracy Martin.

I don't think the phone records would provide the information, but they could probably have used a court order to require the phone company to do whatever they would have done if they were given the PIN. That issue's a bit confusing to me though, since they apparently never could unlock the phone through the phone company; they used the Cellebrite device, along with the help from the California police expert, to finally get the information.  I remember some reports about trying to unlock the phone by using the Google account, but, off hand, I can't recall the details. I believe it was unsuccessful.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on July 27, 2013, 07:54:23 PM
Is "both" the police and Tracy, or is "both" Crump and Tracy? Either way, the police report says Tracy wouldn't give them the password, so unless there's strong evidence that wasn't true, I'll continue to believe it.
My recollection is that Tracy Martin denied both that the police had asked him for an account pin number and Tracy said he would have to first check with his lawyer.  Crump denied Tracy ever asked him about the request.  It could have come up in reply to a reporter's question at a news conference.  I agree with Rachel Jeantel implication that being able to contact her immediately should have been something any competent investigator would have been able to do.  That "we couldn't find a charger" story took the cake.
P.S. What the heck is a pin number for a cell phone account? 
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: MJW on July 27, 2013, 08:12:05 PM
My recollection is that Tracy Martin denied both that the police had asked him for an account pin number and Tracy said he would have to first check with his lawyer.  Crump denied Tracy ever asked him about the request.  It could have come up in reply to a reporter's question at a news conference.  I agree with Rachel Jeantel implication that being able to contact her immediately should have been something any competent investigator would have been able to do.  That "we couldn't find a charger" story took the cake.
P.S. What the heck is a pin number for a cell phone account?

Did Tracy deny it before or after describing how he drove TM half way to Sanford? Did Crump deny it before or after filing a court document that said all the substantive discussions were included in his recording of his Jeantel interview? Or put more directly, I trust what either one of them says about as far as I can throw my head.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 27, 2013, 09:32:59 PM
What the heck is a pin number for a cell phone account?

Personal identification number (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identification_number)
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 27, 2013, 09:41:12 PM
That "we couldn't find a charger" story took the cake.

I don't recall that story.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: DiwataMan on July 28, 2013, 04:54:49 AM
I think the phone records would have included the information needed to access the phone. According to the police report, T-Mobile advised that they needed the phone number and the account pin number (17/184 (http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf)).

ETA: It was the pin number that SPD requested from Tracy Martin.


T-Mobile would not be able to help with a pattern lock. They can however reset the phone that has the other two lock options which is a PIN or Password however in order for them to do that the subscriber would have to request them to do so. When the phone is Pattern Locked there are various ways to gain entry but if you as a user have forgotten it the most popular choice is to purposefully make too many attempts which will result in the phone being locked and no further attempts can be made then the phone has to be reset with a Google Sign-In and Password where the swipe code can be reset. When LEO, whoever it was, made too many attempts they could have subpenaed Google for the Sign-In and Password and reset from there, one wonders why this wasn't done.

When SPD asked Tracy for the PIN it could have been one of two things. Either they were asking Tracy for the PIN number for the T-Mobile account or when they wrote "PIN" in the police report they actually meant "Pattern Lock". Now it would seem more likely they would be asking Tracy for his T-Mobile PIN so they can call T-Mobile back and have them reset the phone however as we know T-Mobile can not unlock a phone that is locked with a swipe code. Either way we know Tracy was not being helpful.

I think what happened was either Santiago didn't understand what he was doing or just wrote a bad report, probably a bit of both.

If this phone was in Sybrina's name why are they asking Tracy? Why did the SPD not subpoena T-Mobile for the records? Why did Matt Gutman say they had the records? How did the SPD have ping logs for Trayvon's phone in their file? How come the internal flash memory is over 3Gb when my wife's phone is constantly cleared yet she has little space to work with? Kruidbos mentioned that they could have tried to gain access to the internal flash drive, why was is sent off to California then if it could have been done there? The FDLE as well can't get into phones like they did in Cali? I find that hard to believe. And once they got access why go to Jersey? Again the same questions, Kruidbos and the FDLE couldn't access it then either? They needed to go to Jersey?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 28, 2013, 08:51:51 AM
If this phone was in Sybrina's name why are they asking Tracy?

That was on 3/5/12, 6 days after the shooting.

I don't know if SPD ever had any contact with Sybrina. I think her first statement in the discovery was to de la Rionda and O'Steen, on 4/2/12 (37/284 (http://www.clickorlando.com/blob/view/-/15490330/data/1/-/kligxm/-/Zimmerman-documents.pdf)).

Tracy could have told SPD that he didn't have the PIN because it was Sybrina's account, but according to the report that isn't what he said.

Quote
Why did the SPD not subpoena T-Mobile for the records?

I don't understand this. Do you mean SPD had the power to issue a subpoena on their own authority, without asking a court? Police departments have to ask courts for warrants. It doesn't seem likely to me that they have independent subpoena power.

Miami Herald, 3/21/12 (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/v-fullstory/2706876/sanford-commission-votes-no-confidence.html)
Quote
As for checking the boy’s phone records, Trayvon’s phone was locked and detectives were in the process of getting a subpoena for the records, [Sanford police spokesman Sgt. David] Morgenstern said.

The article doesn't say when SPD initiated the 'process'. It was the next day, 3/22, that Corey took over the investigation.

DiwataMan
Quote
Why did Matt Gutman say they had the records?

I don't know what Gutman report this refers to, or who 'they' would be.

Quote
How did the SPD have ping logs for Trayvon's phone in their file?

I'm not familiar with this either. Is it something that came out at trial?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on July 28, 2013, 09:09:47 AM
Diwataman, what is your take on the failure of the SPD to contact Rachel Jeantel immediately after the shooting.   Was it total incompetence or did it really require a rare phone charger or information from Tracy Martin or what?  TIA.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 28, 2013, 09:29:47 AM
Diwataman, what is your take on the failure of the SPD to contact Rachel Jeantel immediately after the shooting. . . . did it really require a rare phone charger

Who said it required a rare phone charger?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: RickyJim on July 28, 2013, 09:50:37 AM
Nobody believes it did.  IIRC, it was just an idea bantered about to try to explain why Martin's phone wasn't properly investigated by the SPD right away.  There is discussion of these questions on Aug. 24, 2012 in the old Witness #8 (DeeDee) thread.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 28, 2013, 10:02:06 AM
In the past, we heard a series of confusing statements as to why the last person on the phone with Martin, Rachel Jeantel, was not contacted by the police right away.  First we heard that the police couldn't find a proper charger for the phone.

Nobody believes it did.  IIRC, it was just an idea bantered about . . . There is discussion of these questions on Aug. 24, 2012 in the old Witness #8 (DeeDee) thread.

I'm not seeing consistency here.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: DiwataMan on July 28, 2013, 06:22:14 PM
Diwataman, what is your take on the failure of the SPD to contact Rachel Jeantel immediately after the shooting.   Was it total incompetence or did it really require a rare phone charger or information from Tracy Martin or what?  TIA.

I’ve never heard anything about a “rare charger”. The Cellebrite package I would assume they used comes with a wide variety of charging adapters and clearly they got it working at some point as they were able to utilize the 911 function to call themselves with and get the phone number. I don’t want to say at this point that I am sure it was total incompetence because we don’t have the entire story but it seems to me Santiago wasn’t quite familiar with what to do in an investigative framework regarding the cell phone. It seems the phone investigation was delegated to him for some reason I would assume by lead investigator Serino.

I truly wonder why they said the phone was in Sybrina’s name. How can this be? Crump et al said they got the cell phone records by Tracy looking them up but if the phone was in Sybrina’s name then she would have had to do it. Why would they lie about such a thing? Of course Jackson also said a private investigator did it so who knows what to believe.

Let’s just go over some of this. From the 184 pdf it seems like there may have been concerned with the wetness of the phone and they may have let it dry off for a day and then sent it to SCSO on the 28th. But really they don’t need the phone at all. All they have to do is ask Tracy if that was Trayvon’s phone, the carrier used and the phone number. They must have asked Tracy if it was Trayvon’s phone or else why would they be asking him for the info in the first place.

The 27th was a Monday, they could have gotten the SAO to get a subpoena over to T-Mobile that day I’m sure and I’m sure within a few days they would have had at least the basic phone call info; incoming/outgoing, date, time, phone numbers, duration. It should have really been as simple as that, no phone needed, no need to try to get into the phone, no need to ask Tracy for anything else to get into the phone.

But for some odd reason that’s not what we have here. We have a police officer trying to get into the phone itself, why? He has contact with the SAO on the 28th asking if he needs a search warrant but if he’s interested in call info he needs a subpoena not a search warrant. But I think it’s clear either Santigo doesn’t know he doesn’t need the phone to get phone records or that’s not even his concern. Perhaps he thinks all he would need to do is get into the phone then he would not have to worry about getting phone records but that would be the hard way to go about it especially with a phone locked with a swipe code as he clearly must have learned with his process.

He sends the cell phone to SCSO on the 28th to see if they can get into it.

On the 1st they tell him they can’t because of the swipe code.

On the 2nd he gets the phone back. Then we get this on that same day:

“Inv. Singleton contacted a representative from T-Mobile who told her if the Sanford Police Department obtained the cell phone number and the pin number to the account they would be able to access the swipe code on the cell phone.”

They press the “Emergency Call” button that’s available even when the phone is locked and it clearly calls the 911 call center and they call the number back, twice, to confirm. So now they have the phone number. They should already have asked for the number from Tracy yet they do it this way.

Now they think all they need is the pin number to the phone account and T-Mobile says they can reset/bypass/access the swipe code. But we know T-Mobile can’t reset, bypass or access a swipe code yet Santigo persists in this vain and calls Tracy for the PIN number three days later on the 5th?

Something happens with the phone on the 9th but I have no idea what it is. It has something to do with the SCSO again, Sgt. Kent at the SCSO, and is checked back into evidence at the SPD that same day.

The phone sat in evidence for 11 days. Then on the 20th it’s sent to the FDLE for prints where it remained in custody.

NVNM sites an article where Morgenstern said they were in the process of getting a subpoena for the records. I believe there is also an article somewhere out there with Wolfinger saying something about it. In one of the pretrial hearings West was on the stand and testified to the fact they found the cell phone tower ping map for Trayvon’s phone in the SPD file. So clearly a lot more was going on with that phone then we know about. Also from what I understand the SIM card contains the last call info which the SCSO was able to access when Santiago was talking to them.

Gutman @1:14 “Police had the call logs…and her[Rachel’s] number…”
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/trayvon-martin-investigating-investigation-15965498

Gutman could be lying there.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 28, 2013, 06:34:56 PM
Crump et al said they got the cell phone records by Tracy looking them up but if the phone was in Sybrina’s name then she would have had to do it.

I would think anyone could do it if Sybrina gave them the account number and PIN.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 28, 2013, 06:59:03 PM
They press the “Emergency Call” button that’s available even when the phone is locked and it clearly calls the 911 call center and they call the number back, twice, to confirm. So now they have the phone number. They should already have asked for the number from Tracy yet they do it this way.

They should have assumed the phone they found was the one Tracy thought TM was carrying? I don't think so.

Quote
Gutman @1:14 “Police had the call logs…and her[Rachel’s] number…”
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/trayvon-martin-investigating-investigation-15965498

Gutman could be lying there.

I don't take anything Gutman says seriously, any more than Crump.

Thanks for the round-up.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: DiwataMan on July 28, 2013, 07:27:13 PM
They should have assumed the phone they found was the one Tracy thought TM was carrying? I don't think so.

That's not what I'm saying. It's not stated in the report how they figured out it was Trayvon's phone. All I'm saying is it would have been simple to ask Tracy to identify it, ask him for the carrier and phone number. They wouldn't need him for anything more after that.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: DiwataMan on July 28, 2013, 07:33:46 PM
I would think anyone could do it if Sybrina gave them the account number and PIN.

I suppose perhaps depending on the T-Mobile rep one talks to. Regardless, the records we have show Tracy's name, if it's Sybrina's account why does it show his name? And if Santiago's method was to get the cell phone number utilizing the Emergency Call function and looked that number up showing as T-Mobile then called T-Mobile you would think they would tell him the number is registered to Sybrina and they would have then called her yet they called Tracy instead. How did that happen if it's in Sybrina's name?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on July 28, 2013, 08:21:44 PM
I wonder if the phone was on Tracy's account on 2/26/12 and subsequently moved to Sybrina's account.

That info probably wouldn't be stored on the phone itself--it would only know its own phone number, and any special relationships between that number and any other would be stored on the T-Mobile servers.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: MJW on July 28, 2013, 10:27:52 PM
I wonder if the phone was on Tracy's account on 2/26/12 and subsequently moved to Sybrina's account.

The ownership of the phone account has me confused. The phone records (http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf) provided by Crump have "Welcome, tracy" suggesting it was Tracy's account rather than Sybrina's.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on July 29, 2013, 12:24:16 AM
The ownership of the phone account has me confused. The phone records (http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf) provided by Crump have "Welcome, tracy" suggesting it was Tracy's account rather than Sybrina's.

And we were all assuming it was one of 4 phones on Tracy's account mentioned on that bill until relatively recently when that Connor guy they hired to analyze the binary dump seems to have come up with something saying it was on Sybrina's account.

I don't know if it's possible with T-Mobile accounts, but perhaps the account was in Tracy's name but actual responsibility for payment rested with Sybrina.

Maybe they had an account that dated back to when they were married, or merged accounts from some other provider "back when" and some out of the ordinary arrangement got grandfathered in.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 29, 2013, 06:51:38 AM
Or maybe he just misspoke.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: Evil Chinchilla on July 29, 2013, 10:20:06 AM
The phone records (http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf) provided by Crump have "Welcome, tracy" suggesting it was Tracy's account rather than Sybrina's.
These were released how and when?  ::)

Given that we were originally told they reflected calls between TM and a 16-year-old minor girlfriend, Juliet to his Romeo, who was so traumatized upon learning that he was dead that she went to the hospital and missed his funeral-- well, let's just say that there's nothing in that .pdf that couldn't be easily crafted from a couple of accounts' phone records with minimal Photoshop skills.

Has anyone ever verified that this phone record is genuine? I know they obtained information off the phone itself-- which is IIRC what Richard Conner was speaking about on the stand when he mentioned Sybrina-- but did they verify this Crump-supplied record with its source?
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: MJW on July 29, 2013, 11:36:08 AM
These were released how and when?  ::)

Your skepticism is understandable, but I've always doubted Crump would actually phony-up phone records, though I wouldn't have put it past him to omit some calls. The call times in the records Crump released agree with the times that came out in the court, which leads me to believe they were copies of the actual phone records. I also don't see the advantage to Crump of saying the records were from Tracy's account instead of Sybrina's.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: DebFrmHell on July 29, 2013, 09:29:35 PM
I didn't think he would doctor evidence but in reality the phone bill was given over to NBC.  That is not necessarily "tampering with evidence" since NBC isn't the courts.  I just think he was desperate to find anyway he could to "connect the dots" for the media to build the narrative. 

IMO, he never should have gotten involved with that investigation.  I don't understand why the people who follow him are not extremely PO'd.  They got played like a Stradivarius by someone whom they trusted.

What a bunch of horse's patoots.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: unitron on July 30, 2013, 12:25:49 AM
I didn't think he would doctor evidence but in reality the phone bill was given over to NBC.  That is not necessarily "tampering with evidence" since NBC isn't the courts.  I just think he was desperate to find anyway he could to "connect the dots" for the media to build the narrative. 

IMO, he never should have gotten involved with that investigation.  I don't understand why the people who follow him are not extremely PO'd.  They got played like a Stradivarius by someone whom they trusted.

What a bunch of horse's patoots.

"I didn't think he would doctor evidence but in reality the phone bill was given over to NBC. "

Are we quite sure of that?

I know that there was a PDF of a scan of what appears to be Tracy's T-Mobile bill that was hosted on the server for the NBC O&O in San Francisco, KNTV, but I've never understood how they got involved from all the way on the other side of the continent, and I've wondered if maybe somebody there didn't bribe someone in a T-Mobile West Coast office to do a little unauthorized sharing, or if a little "hacking" was involved.

It would seem that if Martin or Crump were going to voluntarily share that info with anyone it would have been with Gutman and ABC, and ABC does have a picture or video still of a different version of that bill.

Something curious about the NBC PDF, it says the previous billing cycle was from January 19th, 2012 to February 24th, 2012, so you'd expect the bill that covered February 26th to not be generated until March the twenty-somethingth, and so not have been mailed until after Tracy supposedly sat down with it on the evening of Sunday the 19th of March.

(although lately it seems the story has been changing to it having been Saturday the 18th)

Perhaps I just got the impression that it was the mailed statement he was looking at and not that he was doing it online or from a printout from online, but I'd love to be able to ask questions of several people (like Tracy, Sybrina, Crump, and various and sundry people from T-Mobile, ABC, and KNTV) and get straight answers.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: DebFrmHell on July 30, 2013, 09:02:37 AM
It came from online.  It had the "Welcome, tracy" on the bottom of the page.  Maybe the second page.

When I said I didn't think he would doctor that bill, I meant that is before the trial.  With the information gathered through the trial and that Sybrina had the phone in her name, it now appears there were some kind of hijinks.

My big question is was, if the phone was in Tracy's name could it have been from the Brandy Green household?  Something about that "heart" sticker always struck me as someone much younger than TM.

What do I know...  I am a SINKer.

Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 30, 2013, 11:04:43 AM
My big question is was, if the phone was in Tracy's name could it have been from the Brandy Green household?

Tracy didn't live with Brandy. He lived in Miami. That they lived together is one of several untruths that I think were meant to make TM's domestic life seem more orderly than it was. Reuters 3/7/12, (http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE82709M20120308?irpc=932) the first national report, said Brandy was TM's 'stepmother', without qualification.

Quote
Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: DebFrmHell on July 30, 2013, 01:27:18 PM
Tracy didn't live with Brandy. He lived in Miami. That they lived together is one of several untruths that I think were meant to make TM's domestic life seem more orderly than it was. <a

So do have any idea who the four lines belonged to?  Tracy is just one of the lines.

And I know that he didn't live with BG...Not a dolt.
Title: Re: Rachel Jeantel (Witness 8) Trayvon's Phone Friend
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 30, 2013, 02:51:42 PM
So do have any idea who the four lines belonged to?

One was TM's. Maybe Tracy felt the need for a second phone, and one might have been for the woman Tracy was still married to.

I would be surprised if Brandy's phone was on Tracy's account. Even if she got him to pay for her phone, I would think she would want her own account. But of course it's possible.

Quote
And I know that he didn't live with BG.

I thought you might. It's one of many untruths in circulation, so I took the opportunity to address it.