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George Zimmerman Trial Coverage => Daily Trial Proceedings => Topic started by: TalkLeft on July 05, 2013, 01:14:44 AM

Title: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: TalkLeft on July 05, 2013, 01:14:44 AM
Here's a thread for updates and comments about Friday, July 5, believed to be the state's final day of  its case in chief.  Live updating is best found under the particular witness' name in the witness threads.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 06:37:55 AM
8:34 AM

On the record.

Bernie says he won't need exhibits for first 2 witnesses; must be at least 3.

Seems like they are having technical issues again.

Requested by state, Nelson asked GZ to stand, confirm he signed a stipulation that the body the ME examined is TM.

Guy was saying something I missed about an evidence exhibit.

Nelson called for jury.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 06:39:54 AM
8:39 AM.

Jury coming in.

Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 06:42:32 AM
Nelson asking if any jurors broke the rules.

8:40 AM

State calls Sybrina Fulton. (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2551.msg115090.html#msg115090)

She is sworn.

Bernie asks for sidebar.

Sidebar.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 06:52:13 AM
What did Shaeffer just say on WFTV? I missed it. Something about the case being over Wed. no matter what.

Is that me not hearing, him being dumb or something JDN has done now?
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 07:09:41 AM
About 9:05 AM, Sybrina Fulton excused, Jahvaris Fulton (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2562.msg115169.html#msg115169) called.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 07:14:49 AM
Diana Tennis ‏@TennisLaw 13m
If not TM voice then what does that mean. Bias and motive totally fair game. That alone may be reversible error
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 07:32:21 AM
9:23 AM, indefinite recess. According to WESH talking heads, they need a locksmith to open an evidence locker, I guess the one with the ME exhibits. That was the technical problem I mentioned earlier. (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2561.msg115148.html#msg115148)
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 08:07:52 AM
9:54 AM

Jahvaris on stand.

Jury coming in.

O'Mara resuming cross. Still on interview.


10:03 AM
Jahvaris  excused, Sybrina (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2551.msg115200.html#msg115200) recalled.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 08:25:21 AM
About 10:15 AM, Sybrina excused, Dr. Shiping Bao (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2563.msg115205.html#msg115205) called.

Dr. Bao is the Volusia County Medical Examiner. His office also serves Seminole County.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 09:16:21 AM
11:13 AM

Bernie done with direct of Dr Bao.

West asked for recess.

Recess for 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 09:27:34 AM
11:26 AM

West crossing Dr. Bao.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 10:00:05 AM
11:57 AM

Recess for lunch.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 10:04:15 AM
11:57 AM

Recess for lunch.

Recess to allow the defense time to examine Bao's prepared list of potential questions and answers. It just happened that it was near the noon break. West was prepared to go hard after it but Nelson quickly agreed the attorneys could make copies and examine them.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 11:05:00 AM
1:03 PM

Dr. Bao on stand. Jury still out. Nelson called sidebar.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 11:15:38 AM
1:14 PM

Looks like the sidebar is over. Jury has not returned.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 11:18:03 AM
1:17 PM

Sidebar has resumed.

ETA: Maybe it was just West and O'Mara going to their table to collect some papers that made me think the sidebar was done.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 11:22:19 AM
1:21 PM

Bernie raised his hand, as if taking an oath at the bench.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 05, 2013, 11:24:15 AM
Still nobody has explained to me why the following questions weren't asked.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 11:32:15 AM
1:30 PM

Now the sidebar is over. Bernie looks unhappy.

1:31 PM

West resuming cross of Dr. Bao.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 11:55:58 AM
1:52 PM

Jury has returned. Nelson asking if any jurors broke any rules.

1:53 PM

West resuming cross of Dr. Bao.

I was mistaken earlier when I said cross resumed at 1:31. That was a Richardson hearing, with the jury out, to determine if there was a discovery violation by the prosecution. Nelson ruled there was not.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 12:50:11 PM
Bernie on redirect of Dr. Bao, about 2:48 PM.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 01:05:23 PM
Dr. Bao excused, subject to recall.

10 minute recess.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 01:18:03 PM
O'Mara objects to weather report from a nearby station. Witness on scene testify to weather.

Guy says it's closest station.

Nelson wants to know how far.

Guy gives highway landmarks. O'Mara says objects even more, it's farther than he thought, several miles.

Nelson says witness testimony conflicts, she wants to know how far.

People on computers trying to find out.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 01:19:57 PM
Nelson admits weather exhibit.

Bernie says state will rest. Nelson say let's have any arguments to be had, then state can rest when jury returns.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 01:21:21 PM
3:20 PM.

O'Mara arguing for judgment of acquittal.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 01:22:59 PM
O'Mara cites Walker v. State, Florida Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 01:24:19 PM
O'Mara has been talking about 'ill will, spite, and hatred'.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 01:29:55 PM
O'Mara says, "I'm not exactly sure what the state's case is, yet."

Mostly arguing state of mind.  Good material for the record.  Argument unlikely to make the news, Nelson unlikely to grant the motion.  O'Mara says the evidence is strong for defense, and we do not know who is screaming.  Basically arguing that a question of who was screaming is not a material issue of fact based on weight of evidence of the several witnesses.  There in no other reasonable hypothesis that Zimmerman was attacked by Martin.

O'Mara argues that the punch in the face merits resort to deadly force, but if not, then the concrete does.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 05, 2013, 01:33:17 PM
So what are the bookies in LV giving for odds on whether Nelson acquits?  ;D
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 01:33:25 PM
O'Mara's argument is bulletproof.  He is setting out the standards of proof, and putting the onus on the judge to follow the precedents.  This case would not make it to a textbook because the inference of non-guilt is much stronger than any inference of guilt.

Has the jury been sent home yet?  I mean, just for the night.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 01:38:14 PM
Spellbound audience? Cat have everybody's tongue?  Has mine.  O'Mara is doing a very good job of summarizing the evidence and the case law.  Nelson is catatonic, by appearance. No emotion on her face, other than what I would call "boredom."
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 01:39:06 PM
Has the jury been sent home yet?  I mean, just for the night.

If I understood what Nelson said, she wanted to get the arguments out of the way, then bring the jury back for the state to officially rest. Doesn't the state usually rest before the judgment of acquittal is argued?
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 01:39:29 PM
This record has got to be giving Nelson some heartburn.  She has a duty as a judge, and she is about to disregard it.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 05, 2013, 01:41:56 PM
In Florida can her acquittal decision be oral without giving the reasoning?  She might have trouble writing down reasons for rejection.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: Redbrow on July 05, 2013, 01:42:49 PM
This record has got to be giving Nelson some heartburn.  She has a duty as a judge, and she is about to disregard it.

Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence. It has not been established this judge has a heart or conscience.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 01:43:23 PM
This record has got to be giving Nelson some heartburn.  She has a duty as a judge, and she is about to disregard it.

Weren't you saying something similar before her Frye ruling?
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 01:44:00 PM
If I understood what Nelson said, she wanted to get the arguments out of the way, then bring the jury back for the state to officially rest. Doesn't the state usually rest before the judgment of acquittal is argued?

It's her courtroom.  She asked for argument, I presume, or else she would not entertain it.

O'Mara discussing 776.032 pretrial, vs. JOA.  Using Jenkins case.

The jury is probably ignorant of the legal timing protocol.  The judge will not be able to argue ignorance.  O'Mara is giving case law, briefly describing the fact scenarios in sufficient detail.

This really is a slam dunk for JOA.  Has been all along.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 01:45:32 PM
In Florida can her acquittal decision be oral without giving the reasoning?  She might have trouble writing down reasons for rejection.

She can order a recess.  She can order acquittal and follow up at her convenience (assume a few days) with rationale.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 01:47:23 PM
I really like how O'Mara has worked in those times the DCA said, on appeal, that the judge should've granted the JOA.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 01:48:33 PM
O'Mara moves on to "ill will" element of 2nd degree murder.  Distinguishing recklessness from ill will or hatred, based on ability to infer malice.

He is dead on with this argument.  There has been no evidence of ill will as the law defines it.

Aside, I am impressed that the defense has kept Martin's memory clean, so far, and is relying on "doubt" instead of "proof."
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 01:49:32 PM
Did O'Mara just say that Nelson was the sentencing judge in the case of the 2/2/12, suspicious person at Taaffe's unit?
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 05, 2013, 01:49:55 PM
When the state gets up, can they argue "He fibbed so he might be guilty so you have got to deny the JOA."?
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 01:50:40 PM
Did O'Mara just say that Nelson was the sentencing judge in the case of the 2/2/12, suspicious person at Taaffe's unit?

I believe he did, yes.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 01:52:17 PM
I really like how O'Mara has worked in those times the DCA said, on appeal, that the judge should've granted the JOA.

He's giving a very concentrated legal lesson.  None of this is new to people who have followed the case.  I'm very glad that O'Mara did not make a perfunctory argument.  This argument totally blows Corey and de la Rionda out of the water on the charging decision.  Nelson is in a bright spotlight, as a matter of law.  For what THAT might be worth.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 01:54:32 PM
When the state gets up, can they argue "He fibbed so he might be guilty so you have got to deny the JOA."?

He maybe fibbed.

As has been demonstrated again and again, the state can argue anything.  There is no requirement it make sense.  And, the judge can decide as she sees fit.  There is no requirement to follow the law.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 01:59:11 PM
Branca tweets: West talks controlling legal precedent, Nelson hears Charlie Brown's teacher.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 01:59:21 PM
He's giving a very concentrated legal lesson.  None of this is new to people who have followed the case.  I'm very glad that O'Mara did not make a perfunctory argument.  This argument totally blows Corey and de la Rionda out of the water on the charging decision.  Nelson is in a bright spotlight, as a matter of law.  For what THAT might be worth.

Probably not even worth enough to get yourself a large coffee at a non starbucks.
But I like it anyway.

Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 01:59:51 PM
Mantei takes the counterargument.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 02:00:15 PM
3:59 PM

Mantei arguing against judgment of acquittal.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 02:00:26 PM
Mantei?
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 02:02:45 PM
Mantei argues that shooting someone through the heart is itself evidence of spite and ill will.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:03:15 PM
Mantei is arguing that every shooting is evidence of ill will, as a matter of law.  A gunshot alone is enough to make evidence of ill will (not that the jury would buy it, but any discharge gets to court and the jury).
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:03:56 PM
Mantei?

The weakest link.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 02:04:29 PM
Any significance to the State sending up their weakest lawyer?
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 02:04:39 PM
Mantei: GZ didn't know TM, but he thought he did.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 02:08:02 PM
Mantei keeps arguing a false dilemma. If one does not wish another well, then he has ill will toward that person. Beyond that, any action not motivated by desire to do good for another, is motivated by ill will against the other.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:09:28 PM
Any significance to the State sending up their weakest lawyer?

No.  He's just the selected mouthpiece.  This guy has lower ethical standards than Bernardo does.  He loves this argument, and by his "conviction," is most convincing.

Funny, he argues Zimmerman could get back to his truck, and blows off Martin could have been home.  It's so transparent.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 02:11:02 PM
blows off Martin could have been home. 

You mean he ignored it, or made a dismissive mention? If the latter I missed it.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 02:11:13 PM

Funny, he argues Zimmerman could get back to his truck, and blows off Martin could have been home.  It's so transparent.

Not that transparent, it's going to give JDN cover--and she's got to be hard to hide.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:12:00 PM
The fallacy in Mantei's argument is that the burden is on the state.  He's arguing as though Zimmerman has to prove innocence.  One of them dead, the other is a liar.  Cute catch phrase.

O'Mara gets the last word, when ever Mantei runs out of steam.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: Meni on July 05, 2013, 02:14:22 PM
Mantei keeps arguing a false dilemma. If one does not wish another well, then he has ill will toward that person. Beyond that, any action not motivated by desire to do good for another, is motivated by ill will against the other.

I observe that a major strategy of this prosecution is to confuse the jury by skewing.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 05, 2013, 02:15:31 PM
Is there a standard of proof for the judge deciding to acquit at this point?  Preponderance of evidence?  I found them obscure on this, in fact what I have heard is shear gobbledygook. 
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 02:15:42 PM
Diana Tennis ‏@TennisLaw 1m
Why do I want to give this guy a wedgie?!


I concur.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:15:49 PM
You mean he ignored it, or made a dismissive mention? If the latter I missed it.

Ignored it.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:17:46 PM
Is there a standard of proof for the judge deciding to acquit at this point?  Preponderance of evidence?  I found them obscure on this, in fact what I have heard is shear gobbledygook.

Yes, there is a standard of proof for the judge deciding to acquit at this point.  O'Mara cited several cases.  Read them and summarize them for the class.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 02:20:50 PM
Yes, there is a standard of proof for the judge deciding to acquit at this point.  O'Mara cited several cases.  Read them and summarize them for the class.

And Hornsby linked to all of them on his twitter page.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 05, 2013, 02:24:15 PM
Mantei is incorrect.  Capt. Carter never testified that the nickname SYG was used in the class.  I kept asking that during his testimony.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:26:30 PM
Mantei is incorrect.  Capt. Carter never testified that the nickname SYG was used in the class.  I kept asking that during his testimony.

Mantei, de la Rionda, and Cory are all bald faced liars.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 05, 2013, 02:30:42 PM
Quote
"If, after viewing the evidence in the light most favorable to the State, a rational trier of fact could find the existence of the elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, sufficient evidence exists to sustain a conviction." Pagan v. State, 830 So.2d 792, 803 (Fla.2002).

What in the world could the premise (part after If) of this mean?  You assume that every piece of evidence favoring the defendant is a lie and every bit favoring the state is true?  There is no intelligible standard here.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 02:33:09 PM
4:32 PM

Mantei done.

O'Mara rebutting.

Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:34:51 PM
Mantei closes by saying that ill will is not necessary to let this go to a jury, that manslaughter is a necessarily included offense, and depraved indifference is not an element of manslaughter.

O'Mara distinguishes the Jenkins case, and the Liesure case.  Heheheh.  Nelson is on the bubble.  I love it.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:36:21 PM
Prediction: Nelson will take this into consideration overnight.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 02:36:31 PM
Mantei says It's"a fair inference from the evidence" that George Zimmerman "started this".

Which evidence would that be?
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 02:37:28 PM
Prediction: Nelson will take this into consideration overnight.

Overnight or over weekend?
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: Meni on July 05, 2013, 02:38:45 PM
"Judge could grant joa on M2 & let trial go forward on manslaughter. GZ still faces up to 30 yrs on that & those elements may be proven."

https://twitter.com/judgealexferrer/status/353248037839187969
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:39:21 PM
Overnight or over weekend?

Pardon me, over the weekend.  I lost track of the day of the week.

For me, this part of the trial is by far the best, so far.  This gets into the guts of the system that has been subverted, and Nelson is being put on unequivocal notice.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 02:41:20 PM
Pardon me, over the weekend.  I lost track of the day of the week.

For me, this part of the trial is by far the best, so far.  This gets into the guts of the system that has been subverted, and Nelson is being put on unequivocal notice.

Wanted to make sure I hadn't missed her saying they'd be back tomorrow.

And yes, this part is really cool. I almost wish this was the whole trial.

Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:45:17 PM
O'Mara is hitting on all cylinders.  Naming witnesses by name, and saying Rachael's testimony was fabricated.  A this level of decision, he has to touch on the evidence, and he is doing so.  Textbook - the judge, that would be Nelson, has to exclude all reasonable hypothesis, if is doesn't, the motion for acquittal MUST be granted.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 05, 2013, 02:51:04 PM
Now O'Mara seems to be arguing that the standard to acquit at this point is that same that the jury will have if the defense presents a case.  I understand that standard, not the stuff in the quoted cases.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 02:52:45 PM
4:52 PM

O'Mara done.

Motion denied.

Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:52:53 PM
O'Mara - if the standard for JOA was as the state claims, there would be no appellate cases.  Where is the direct evidence that contradicts self defense?

If the court is presented with a self defense scenario, that has not been disproved, JOA has to be granted.

No evidence he was the initial aggressor, but the state wants to say that.

Defer to Carter and to common sense that the attack could have produced serious injury.

O'Mara produces a no-evidence case, Zimmerman has Martin by the shirt, and Zimmerman shot.  There is NO shred of evidence.  The state is grasping at straws.   None of the case indicates ill will, and none of it contraindicates Zimmerman had to use self defense.

Tight close.

Nelson rules against O'Mara.

Asks for next witness.  Bring in jury to rest formally.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 05, 2013, 02:53:59 PM
LOL. She could've at least pretended to consider it.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:55:27 PM
LOL. She could've at least pretended to consider it.

O'Mara made a fantastic argument.  Textbook.  He is right on the law, and right on the merits.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:56:15 PM
Jury wants a witness.  Time for the jury to make the court work.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 02:57:10 PM
Bernie put in his two posters, weather and timeline, and rested at 4:55 PM.

ETA: Nelson asked jury if they wanted to break for the day or hear another witness. They wanted to go on.

Defense called Gladys Zimmerman. (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2564.msg115450.html#msg115450)

Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: cboldt on July 05, 2013, 02:57:28 PM
First Witness, George's mother, who has been excluded from trial by action of the state of Florida.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 03:22:17 PM
Defense voice witnesses in rapid succession. Gladys followed by Jorge Meza, (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2565.msg115454.html#msg115454) GZ's uncle. Meza excused about 5:15 PM.

O'Mara asked for sidebar.

Sidebar.

5:20 PM

Nelson excused jury, called sidebar.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 03:24:28 PM
5:23 PM.

Recess until 9:00 AM Monday.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 05, 2013, 05:14:39 PM
This post (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2563.msg115380.html#msg115380) is in the wrong thread. It should have been in this thread. Reading it before this one (http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php/topic,2561.msg115384.html#msg115384) may clarify matters.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: SuzieTampa on July 05, 2013, 06:09:03 PM
Re: the NWS evidence on rain at a location that may be as much as 6 miles away. I hope someone gets the exact mileage. People who live in Central FL would know that the amount of rain can differ widely in different places.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 06, 2013, 06:24:49 AM
Re: the NWS evidence on rain at a location that may be as much as 6 miles away. I hope someone gets the exact mileage.

I wouldn't know how to find an exact distance to Ravenna Park Weather Station from RATL. I think Google Earth is pretty close. I make it to be about a mile and a quarter from the back entrance, about a mile and a half from Frank Taaffe's. I'll post a screen capture ASAP.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 06, 2013, 07:21:50 AM
I wouldn't know how to find an exact distance to Ravenna Park Weather Station from RATL. I think Google Earth is pretty close. I make it to be about a mile and a quarter from the back entrance, about a mile and a half from Frank Taaffe's. I'll post a screen capture ASAP.

That's in line with one of the lawyers on Twitter...maybe Hornsby, who said it was a couple of miles. I was going to do a google map for it but got sidetracked.

Google Maps says to drive it would be 2.1 miles. It appears that a crow would find it a much less arduous journey.

Weather can change rapidly area to area in FL though. I think I agree with O'Mara that there's enough witness testimony as to the weather.
Title: Re: Week 2, 4th day, Friday, 7/5/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 06, 2013, 08:24:20 AM

Ravenna Park Weather Station, (http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KFLSANFO10&month=2&day=26&year=2012) Report for 2/26/12

Lat: N 28 47 ' 24 ''
Lon: W 81 18 ' 23 ''

Maps (http://www.flickr.com/photos/81587998@N06/sets/72157634514342958/)

The location of the placemark (yellow pushpin) for the weather station is my own estimate. I haven't been able to identify the building that houses the station, but I think this is close enough for practical purposes.

Left click a photo to enlarge. Right click for a menu.