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George Zimmerman Trial Coverage => Witnesses => Topic started by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 07:53:30 AM

Title: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 07:53:30 AM
MO called 9:50 AM.

O'Mara on direct.

MO: GZ and Shellie took firearms safety course together.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 07:57:40 AM
MO explained why it's better to carry a pistol without external safety (he says 'exterior').

MO: All LEO's he knows of use pistols without exterior safeties.

MO says 'extended trigger pull'.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 08:00:15 AM
MO: He carries with a round in the chamber. For LEO's it is a violation of policy not to have a round in the chamber.

MO: It doesn't make sense not to have a full magazine.

MO: GZ shoots right handed, writes left handed.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 08:02:26 AM
MO advised GZ to carry in the way he is most comfortable, practice it consistently.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 08:04:15 AM
O'Mara asking about MO's familiarity with GZ's voice. MO has never before heard GZ scream as on Lauer 911 recording.

Recording playing.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 08, 2013, 08:05:23 AM
In order not to start a new thread I'll ask it here:  Is it possible to repeatedly fire the Kel Tec PF9 using only one hand?
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 08, 2013, 08:07:58 AM
In order not to start a new thread I'll ask it here:  Is it possible to repeatedly fire the Kel Tec PF9 using only one hand?

Of course.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 08:08:40 AM
Bernie on cross.

He asked MO to confirm what Sondra said about book. MO also doesn't know how many sold, refers Q to publisher.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 08:09:46 AM
Bernie asking about GZ's holster. I don't know what he is getting at.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 08:12:11 AM
Bernie is trying to establish that GZ wouldn't have holstered his gun if he didn't know TM was dead.

ETA: This doesn't refer to the questions I mentioned in the last post. I still don't know what their purpose was.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 08, 2013, 08:12:39 AM
Of course.
During this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX508Y4mQtw), two hands are used for repeated firing.  Have you used the weapon?  I was under the impression that the slide is needed to keep chambering a new bullet from the magazine.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: cboldt on July 08, 2013, 08:13:23 AM
During this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX508Y4mQtw), two hands are used for repeated firing.  Have you used the weapon?  I was under the impression that the slide is needed to keep chambering a new bullet from the magazine.

Firing a round cycles the slide.

A two hand grip is used to reduce the muzzle rise and to more quickly get back on target.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 08:14:56 AM
Firing a round cycles the slide.

That's kind of what 'automatic' and 'semi-automatic' mean.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: leftwig on July 08, 2013, 08:15:32 AM
During this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX508Y4mQtw), two hands are used for repeated firing.  Have you used the weapon?  I was under the impression that the slide is needed to keep chambering a new bullet from the magazine.
I know of no modern slide action semi-automatic pistol that requires you to manually (two hand) cycle the round.  It wouldn't be semi-automatic if you did.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: cboldt on July 08, 2013, 08:16:06 AM
That's kind of what 'automatic' and 'semi-automatic' mean.

Indeed.  I understand the weapon function, RJ doesn't.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 08:16:31 AM
MO: GZ familiar with shooting left handed, not necessarily proficient.

O'Mara on redirect.

ETA: Reviewing that MO recommends carrying with a round chambered and the magazine 'topped off'.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 08, 2013, 08:17:30 AM
During this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX508Y4mQtw), two hands are used for repeated firing.  Have you used the weapon?  I was under the impression that the slide is needed to keep chambering a new bullet from the magazine.

I have no idea what you're trying to get at. The person in the video is holding the weapon in two hands because it's considered more accurate to hold a gun in the Weaver or Isosceles stance, but it's not required for function.

How do I know? I've been a shooter for 35 years. Competitive shooter. NRA ranked Expert to High Master (depending on the discipline). I own ...lots of guns. I've even out shot Mas Ayoob in competition.

I do not own a Kel-Tec. I have seen them, handled them, shot them and watched them being shot.

Any other questions?
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: Lousy1 on July 08, 2013, 08:17:44 AM
Firing a round cycles the slide.

Exactly. One hand is sufficient once the firing /battery cycle commences. The gun will fire each time the trigger is pulled until the magazine ammo is exhausted.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 08:19:18 AM
MO explaining the concept of shooting center mass. He dismissed the idea of shooting at an arm or leg as 'Hollywood'.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 08, 2013, 08:19:45 AM
Thanks cbolt and leftwig for explaining that the gun can be repeatedly fired one handed.  I wasn't able to find that information easily from Amy Siewart's testimony or the old gun and holster thread.   :)

ETA: and Lousy1 and AnnoyedBeyond
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 08:20:21 AM
MO: Whether to shoot 1, 2, or 3 times depends on circumstances, size and number of assailants, caliber of weapon.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 08:22:48 AM
Bernie on re-cross.

MO: 'We' practiced shooting twice.

MO excused, subject to recall at O'Mara's request.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 08, 2013, 08:23:59 AM
Bernie on re-cross.

MO: 'We' practiced shooting twice.

MO excused, subject to recall at O'Mara's request.

I'm not sure that's accurate. I heard him say we (he in LE we) practice the double tap all the time.

I'm not certain he was talking about he and GZ.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: Lousy1 on July 08, 2013, 08:30:08 AM
My God Osterman is an idiot.

For those of us not watching-why?
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 08, 2013, 08:44:09 AM
For those of us not watching-why?

He's just not that bright. He's the very definition of wanna-be cop, except he is actually a cop. He rabbits on and on to make himself seem smart or important, but for the most part he should be answering questions with single word sentences instead of lecturing to the jury.

And he talks about what he does which isn't really answering the questions.

That and he just rubs me the wrong way. Always has. LOL.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: RickyJim on July 08, 2013, 08:54:21 AM
... Amy Siewart's testimony..............
It is Amy Siewert.  My apologies.  She wasn't honored with a witness thread but her youtube videos are on Cylinder's list for Day 8.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 05:14:09 PM
I'm not certain he was talking about he and GZ.

I didn't say he was. That's why I put 'we' in quotes. It's what he said. I don't know he and who else.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 05:22:31 PM
He's just not that bright.

Keep throwing stones.

 
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 08, 2013, 05:41:38 PM
I didn't say he was. That's why I put 'we' in quotes. It's what he said. I don't know he and who else.

I'm sorry I misunderstood.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 08, 2013, 05:42:52 PM
Keep throwing stones.

You forgot to put in the little smiley face, NM.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: Lousy1 on July 08, 2013, 05:46:03 PM
He's just not that bright. He's the very definition of wanna-be cop, except he is actually a cop. He rabbits on and on to make himself seem smart or important, but for the most part he should be answering questions with single word sentences instead of lecturing to the jury.

And he talks about what he does which isn't really answering the questions.

That and he just rubs me the wrong way. Always has. LOL.

I can identify with that stereotype. Thanks for the explanation. He struck me that way also.

 For the first week of the trial I was up in the mountains with a troop of scouts ( yep the camp that got hit by lightning)

After following this case for a year I was reduced to occasional iPhone glimpses of the opening phase  of the trial when the mountains and electricity allowed. This forum was a great concise source of info. Thanks all
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: nomatter_nevermind on July 08, 2013, 05:57:57 PM
He rabbits on and on to make himself seem smart or important, but for the most part he should be answering questions with single word sentences instead of lecturing to the jury.

I disagree.

By answering in detail, MO gave any jurors who don't know much about guns an understanding of why his answers made sense, and reason to think he knew what he was talking about, not making up answers to help his friend.

I do think MO fumbled badly when Bernie crossed on 'center mass'. Bernie asked a series of questions that conflated 'stop' with 'kill', painting people who carry as bloodthirsty vigilantes out to lure bad guys to their deaths like a Charles Bronson anti-hero. I was, let's say disappointed, when MO answered the first of those questions with, essentially, 'yes, that's right'. By the second such question MO had spotted the trap and was answering correctly. But I think anyone advocating for armed self-defense should be acutely aware of the stop/kill distinction, and react immediately when someone tries to conflate the two.

I think MO also missed the chance to make clear that one reason for shooting center mass is that a miss endangers bystanders. That was particularly important for GZ's situation, at close quarters between two rows of mostly occupied residences.

Still, I give MO a B+. He made a good defense, not only of GZ, but of the practice of concealed carry.
Title: Re: Mark Osterman, Zimmerman Friend, 7/8/13
Post by: annoyedbeyond on July 08, 2013, 06:06:51 PM
While I can see your points, NM, and maybe even agree a little with a couple of them, I just can't seem to get past my overall distaste for the man.

Plus, as someone who (not to sound...snotty...) knows more about guns than Osterman does, I found his blather on the subject annoying at best.

Still--looking at it from the point of view of someone who might not know what I know about the entire topic, you make good points.

Now stop doing that already!
 ;D ;D