Cash KC, Joyner on 11

[Lora]

Peebs: Everyone deserves a defense...

And Mangum has a fine defense. She has a long history of mental illness and drug abuse associated with it. Her manic episodes apparently include hallucinations.

You bet, Crystal Mangum has a fine defense. That's why no one is prosecuting her, not because she was anywhere in the neighborhood of the truth.

The accuser has never offered mental illness as a defense. It's the players, their attorneys, and the people they have influenced in the Attorney General' office who have offered mental illness as an offense. It's an offensive use of mental illness we're witnessing, not a defensive one.

THAT's the problem I have with Bob in P's speculations about Crystal's mental state.  Bob, you mix large doses of highly negative
speculation with some elements of truth which you then present as fact.

[RodNReg]

Neff winning the Pulitzer would remind me of the time Hitler took Paris, if I thought awards meant much. Or the time 60 Minutes won a Peabody.

Your comments on the Pulitzer and Peabody awards will certainly greatly diminish their prestige for all.

[Trinity Rez]

Peebs: Everyone deserves a defense...

And Mangum has a fine defense. She has a long history of mental illness and drug abuse associated with it. Her manic episodes apparently include hallucinations.

You bet, Crystal Mangum has a fine defense. That's why no one is prosecuting her, not because she was anywhere in the neighborhood of the truth.

The accuser has never offered mental illness as a defense. It's the players, their attorneys, and the people they have influenced in the Attorney General' office who have offered mental illness as an offense. It's an offensive use of mental illness we're witnessing, not a defensive one.

THAT's the problem I have with Bob in P's speculations about Crystal's mental state.  Bob, you mix large doses of highly negative
speculation with some elements of truth which you then present as fact.

BiP was right just as most of us regarding CGM's mental state. Are you still denying she has mental issues that caused this fiasco?

[MarkRougemont]

My anger at Cash was always because I thought he had the talent, the presence, the verbal skills, the access to make a real difference. I think he could have been THE media figure that broke this case. Over the summer, I thought that he would be the one to speak truth to a lie, bring both sides to healing, and gain a national reputation in the process. I admired him so much! Even furious at him, I can never deny his talents. He is a gifted man.
Then came a pull back, the "Shake" series, joining Boards to return insults, the Bribe story with anonymous sources, the membership at the Cave.
Yes, there were idiots posting vile things all over the INTERNET. But when Cash started to spoon feed them to his readers, the potential jury pool, then, IMO, he started to hurt the boys through things they could not control. He smeared them with others words. Even if there would be no trial, he added to the injustice done to them.
I'm sure he will attack me again or smear me in the Cave. But I found it infuriating and sad. Because he certainly might have been the media figure we ALL could have admired, we all could have trusted. He is very talented.

 Cash is very talented both in the broadcast as well as the print media. I was very surprised to see you say that and I appreciate your honesty about your opinion here. I think the word you used "anger" is honest as well.  But you have to understand that Cash may see his role as different than what you wanted it to be. As far as "anger" goes, maybe Cash showed some of that as well in his responses to you and others in the past and maybe that anger didn't help the situation. I do think his call for healing is genuine and I do think his stance on the case, despite some of the "anger" shown both to him and from him, has allways been a fair one. And I also think that he is respected among the Black community and he deserves more respect than he has received from others outside of that group. I can remember when Cash was praised at the beginning of this case for taking a balanced and fair approach, one of the few in the Black community that promoted a innocent until proven guilty attitude. As public opinion changed to that of (almost) everyone calling this case a joke of a hoax, Cash maintained the stance he took the entire time and was then seen as something of an enabler, when in my opinion, he was being consistant and fair. Our perception of Cash in this regard is obviously different, however we do have some common ground and Cash is still a voice deserving to be heard and listened to in the future.

[Lora]

Peebs: Everyone deserves a defense...

And Mangum has a fine defense. She has a long history of mental illness and drug abuse associated with it. Her manic episodes apparently include hallucinations.

You bet, Crystal Mangum has a fine defense. That's why no one is prosecuting her, not because she was anywhere in the neighborhood of the truth.

The accuser has never offered mental illness as a defense. It's the players, their attorneys, and the people they have influenced in the Attorney General' office who have offered mental illness as an offense. It's an offensive use of mental illness we're witnessing, not a defensive one.

THAT's the problem I have with Bob in P's speculations about Crystal's mental state.  Bob, you mix large doses of highly negative
speculation with some elements of truth which you then present as fact.

BiP was right just as most of us regarding CGM's mental state. Are you still denying she has mental issues that caused this fiasco?

I think it likely that those issues played a part.

It's one thing to say that her behavior appeared bizarre enough to make you wonder if bipolar disorder combined with drug and alcohol abuse played a big part, especially given various occurences in her past which would fit the pattern.  

It's another thing to make an uncorroborated blanket statement of fact as Bob does frequently like this one: "She has a long history of mental illness and drug abuse associated with it."

 I say uncorroborated because without access to her case files, you don't know if her "mental illness" ALWAYS was associated with drug abuse, if it was ever in remission, if her early psychiatric care was due to circumstances or from an underlying condition, what drugs she allegedly abused etc.

As I said, Bob speculates toward the negative side of her possible mental condition and states it as fact.

[cpamba]

Just watched the segment...I too was struck by how Cash came across during the panel as compared to his persona in print or on the boards.  Overall, the panel was good, though Joyner's comments seemed to be coming from Mars.  Does he really believe that Nifong was "swept up" into the case because of all the media attention?  Does he really think Nifong should be given credit for his transparently self-serving "apology?"

KC Johnson made a few good points, especially about how outrageous it is for Nifong to downplay his own role in rigging the line-ups, making improper comments to the media, and conspiring to suppress the DNA evidence.

I regret that the discussion wasn't longer...it was a good panel, well worth watching.

I'm curious . . . do you think that the Cash we saw on this program could have made a national name for himself by exposing this hoax and holding Nifong and the Durham DPD accountable for their illegal and/or unethical activities?  I believe he could have then gone on to building his name/credibility/recognition by bringing to light other innocents who are being unjustly prosecuted or imprisoned by Nifong and/or the Durham DPD.  He could have won a Pulitzer if he had just been honest and played this one straight down the middle with no racial bias.

My anger at Cash was always because I thought he had the talent, the presence, the verbal skills, the access to make a real difference. I think he could have been THE media figure that broke this case. Over the summer, I thought that he would be the one to speak truth to a lie, bring both sides to healing, and gain a national reputation in the process. I admired him so much! Even furious at him, I can never deny his talents. He is a gifted man.
Then came a pull back, the "Shake" series, joining Boards to return insults, the Bribe story with anonymous sources, the membership at the Cave.
Yes, there were idiots posting vile things all over the INTERNET. But when Cash started to spoon feed them to his readers, the potential jury pool, then, IMO, he started to hurt the boys through things they could not control. He smeared them with others words. Even if there would be no trial, he added to the injustice done to them.
I'm sure he will attack me again or smear me in the Cave. But I found it infuriating and sad. Because he certainly might have been the media figure we ALL could have admired, we all could have trusted. He is very talented.

Cecelia, that's just my point.  He could have made a difference in this case.  He could have had an impact on future cases.  Instead, he threw it all away to play the race angle . . . over and over again.  The only thing he was consistent about was that he saw everything from a "Black" perspective.  How sad.  He may never get a another chance to rise up.

[cecelia]

Mark, I understand and acknowledge what you are saying. I think you are correct in saying Cash saw his role differently.

But here's my point, much in line with Cpamba's.

This case drew phenomenal attention from millions of people.  Look at the numbers the N&O carried today.This summer, Cash is front and center, his talents and intelligence on display.  He was primed to be the star.  He should have been. Or , at least, perceived by those dropping in from a national audience, as an unbiased purveyor of fact.

Why ever would he resort to engaging with idiots on message boards and returning insults? And then to carry that sorry dialog into his columns.  It hurt the boys, was unfair to them, in the short term.  But hurt HIMSELF in the long run even more.
In the light of the Innocence of these boys and the travesty of this year, this gifted man leaves a legacy of bringing the following to "his community"..Wendy Murphy as unbiased expert, Jakki and two anonymous sources for the Bribe, and week after week of trolling the Boards to inflame the potential jury pool  against these kids.

As the case disintegrated, he seemed to get angrier. Suggesting maybe a robbery charge might work, against these kids who have spent the last year in agony. He lost perspective. I think many, many saw that. So much anger.

It's what drew me from silence to angry posting.

IMO There was no fairness anymore. Without fairness, there is no trust of a journalist. Even a very talented one. I fear that's what the national audience will remember.

But even I hope not.

[cashmichaels]

Let me address a few points that have been raised here, because many of your comments prove something that was clearly evident to me during the criminal phase, and continues to be true even as you read this.

We live in the same country, but in totally different worlds.

You can thank our history for that.

Many of you have stated how I could have been an enterprising journalist in this, even vied for a Pulitzer and all that other stuff.

You don’t understand, that’s NOT my world, nor do I ever want it to be.

Yes, I can, and have held court both on the air and off the air with the powerful of this state and nation, from Mrs. Coretta Scott King to Muhammad Ali. And I have been offered many opportunities to move on.

But I’m not devoted to career as much as I am to service, particularly to my community.  I have been blessed, as many teachers, law enforcement and public safety officers, and others who make little to no money, but know they are contributing to a greater good, to be able to help move my community forward on many issues we continue to confront.

Yesterday, I was part of a panel discussion at UNC-Chapel Hill concerning Black-Latino relations and what our respective media can do to improve those relations. Spending three and a half hours with African-American and Hispanic students looking to break into the communications business, re-energized and refocused me after a week of events that were dizzying to say the least.

I wasn’t paid for it, and yet in the most important way, I was.

This case took the course I said many months ago it had to take in order for there to be some semblance of closure.

We had to have either a judge, jury or an official disinterested legal authority tell us, with clarity, what this case is, and isn’t.

That has happened.

We had to have the players who were at that party finally tell their story so that a complete and comprehensive view of all that went on that night was finally arrived at.

That has now happened.

And we had to allow the process to take its course, for as long as it takes, without fear or favor.

That has certainly happened now as well.

So I find it fascinating that there are those of you who insist that I held the magic bullet towards ending this case any earlier than it has. That is preposterous to say the least. This case took the course it was going to take, by virtue of the activities of the Duke Three defense team and their support network.

Part of my job was to cover that.

But it was also my job to cover the process, and hold everyone’s feet to the fire. The record, NOT your interpretation of the record, clearly proves that, and I’m satisfied with it.

The very fact that AG Cooper and our state Legislature is now seriously discussing creating additional mechanisms to effectively keep DA’s accountable during the course of a case, proves why I could only report what people’s suspicions were, based on the discovery evidence we knew of.

The pieces that were missing, like the getting other players at the party to talk, and trying to nail the accuser down on her versions, and why the Durham PD would help Nifong commit a dastardly fraud, those were the pieces that, without answers, a journalist can only move but so far.

What compounded the challenge from my community’s perspective were the racial attacks, and the license that many, not all, but many Duke Three supporters felt justified to employ. I discussed this with several other Black reporters at UNC-CH Saturday, and we were all on the same page about how underreported that aspect of this case was, and how I had to deal with it virtually singlehandedly.

It’s hard to lock arms and sing “Kuumbiya” with folks who are attacking your community at the same time. And when I would bring it up on the boards to those Duke Three’ers who weren’t doing it, they’d say in essence, “Racist attacks? What racist attacks?”

A dual track was now created – you demanded freedom for the Duke Three, and I demanded that you stop trashing the Black community in your efforts to do so.

That logjam only got worse, as I can personally attest to given the many lies that have been posted in an effort to discredit me. And I fought back.

Two different worlds. I know YOU don’t see it that way, but WE do, and that can’t be dismissed, as it has been so many times before.

Last week’s Imus controversy proved that. Because of that idiot’s off-hand remark on the air, highly accomplished African-Americans like Al Roker of “Today;” Bruce Gordon, a CBS director; American Express CEO Ken Chennault; along with Sharpton and Jackson and the National Association of Black Journalists demanded that his butt see the pavement, and in record time, it did.

So all of this talk about what I could have done and would have been and yadda-yada-yada…please, that’s YOUR world. GOD has blessed me to do what I enjoy doing, where I enjoy doing it, for the purpose I believe it should be done for. In the process, my phone rings off the hook with people wanting me; I don’t call them. I don’t want their rat race. I’m from New York; I paid my dues in that world learning from the best.

Where I am now, doing what I want to do, for whom I want to do it and how, that is freedom those “pinnacle of success’ folks wish they had, but don’t. We talk all the time, so believe me, I know.

I came on the boards months ago because Black posters were being viciously attacked by Rez and others over at abc11tv.com, and I make no apologies telling it like it is in that regard. I make no apologies for ourheartsworld.com for the same reason.

I came on the boards because I decide what I do, no one else. That means I don’t want anything you have, because I have what I want. And if I need more or different, I can get that too. That independence has distinguished me. You’ll be surprised to learn that Black Nationalists aren’t too thrilled that I embrace the Cooper findings.

But they also know that I don’t care what they think, or what you think, just as long as I’m cool with it.

So this, “Gee Cash, you could have been somebody” crap is hilarious. You don’t have your finger on that button; I do.  This case was extraordinarily intense for my community, and the questions and concerns we had, had to be answered.

We have our answers now. One day, I’ll be able to put those answers in context in my book. It will be written only for those who seriously want to understand why we asked the questions we did.

I personally invited Prof. Johnson on the program Friday, and he was most gracious and genuine. Our producers were quite pleased and impressed, as I knew they would be.

Invited him, and burying the hatchet with Bill Anderson, was my way of closure on the case. All of you will determine your own, which is your right. There are some who still insist on cheap potshots and recriminations.

To each his own.

All I know is my questions about this case have virtually been answered. My community, both here and on radio stations across the country (I did Armstrong Williams in New York Thursday; Sharpton nationally syndicated Thursday; Seattle, Washington Friday morning; WBLS-FM in New York Sunday morning; and will do WLIB-AM in New York tonight at 10 p.m.) are thankful that I told them months ago about the problems with the evidence and the accuser’s credibility issues, so last week wasn’t such a great shock.

That pleases me, because they know I wasn’t telling them what some may have wanted to hear, but needed to hear.

That’s my Pulitzer Prize, in my world, and I make no apologies for it.

And I’m certainly at peace now.

Cash

[Trinity Rez]

Sorry Cash I will attack any community that tries to distort the facts and railroad 3 innocent people. I have, just last week, attacked my neighbors on our list server for beiing hypocrites and prejudice against rich white males. No selective indignation on my part. Wish I could say the same about others.

[cecelia]

I won't be at peace till I understand the hate that fueled the persecution of these young men.

There have been few apologies to them. Imus words were awful. They were dealt with. The NCNAACP words are still up.It's too bad that our love for our communities keep us from a common sense of fairness.

I guess Cash is saying , because of History, we'll never be ONE community. So therefore, we can never be fair to one another.Very sad.

[Ready4Freddy]

But you have to understand that Cash may see his role as different than what you wanted it to be.

We live in the same country, but in totally different worlds.

Aren't those just 2 different ways of saying that Keaton was 'covering the facts (or case) from the black perspective', as he put it so tellingly on this board?

[Marie]

Peebs: Everyone deserves a defense...

And Mangum has a fine defense. She has a long history of mental illness and drug abuse associated with it. Her manic episodes apparently include hallucinations.

You bet, Crystal Mangum has a fine defense. That's why no one is prosecuting her, not because she was anywhere in the neighborhood of the truth.

The accuser has never offered mental illness as a defense. It's the players, their attorneys, and the people they have influenced in the Attorney General' office who have offered mental illness as an offense. It's an offensive use of mental illness we're witnessing, not a defensive one.

That's absurd. The SPs saw Crystal for themselves. They interviewed her. Her stories changed right in front of them and became more and more fantastic. She showed up under the influence of something. They also had access to her psychiatric files. This is a determination they made themselves.

[PB]

That's absurd. The SPs saw Crystal for themselves. They interviewed her. Her stories changed right in front of them and became more and more fantastic. She showed up under the influence of something. They also had access to her psychiatric files. This is a determination they made themselves.

That doesn't make it any less "offensive."

[Trinity Rez]

What I would like to know is would Cash and his community have acted the same if the race roles were reversed?

That should tell you all you need to know.

Imus is a perfect example. How many blacks call whites crackers or make fun of red necks with no outrage? It is the hypocrisy that makes me sick.


If I saw the lynch mobs demonizing three black individuals for no reason other than their color and status I would have acted the same. I know the people on the prosecuting side would not have.

[Trinity Rez]

That's absurd. The SPs saw Crystal for themselves. They interviewed her. Her stories changed right in front of them and became more and more fantastic. She showed up under the influence of something. They also had access to her psychiatric files. This is a determination they made themselves.

That doesn't make it any less "offensive."

Sometimes the truth hurts but that should not discourage people from facing it.